Guides Gone Wild

Continuing (and Creating!) Legacy in Fly Fishing: Selene of Maine, Owner of Selene's Fly Shop

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A few weeks ago I was fortunate to attend the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit that was held at Sunday River, and not only did I run into SOOO MANY of my favorite pod people, I also had the opportunity to finally corral a guest I’d had on my wish list for a while - because celebrity fly tyer Selene Frohmberg, aka Selene of Maine, owner of Selene’s Fly Shop in Gardiner, Maine, led two special add-on sessions at the Summit, and was nice enough to sit down with me for a chat at Evans Notch Lodge before she left town.

So we’re celebrating Women-Led Wednesday and Small Business Saturday a little early this year! Selene and I talk about her fishing, tying and guiding origin stories, entrepreneurship and entomology, floods and flies - and best of all, she shares some awesome tips and gift ideas for the wanna be fly fisherperson on your list, even if that person is YOU.

Head on over to SelenesFlyShop.com to check out the huge variety of supplies, equipment, events and experiences that Selene has curated for us all, and make sure to follow Selene’s Fly Shop on all the socials as well.

And speaking of socials, I hope you’ll come on over to the Guides Gone Wild Instagram or Facebook accounts this week, I'll be fast-tracking you to hours of inspiring content to fuel your long drives and cooking marathons this long holiday weekend!

Whether you’re spending some special time with family or framily, I hope you get plenty of fresh air and take advantage of every opportunity to get a little wild this week!

Selene’s Fly Shop: https://www.selenesflyshop.com/

Selene of Maine: https://seleneofmaine.com/

@SelenesFlyShop: https://www.instagram.com/selenesflyshop

https://www.facebook.com/seleneofmaineflytyer

Links to fishy fun and more!:

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Jen:

Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild. Let's get a little wild.

Jen:

Welcome to Guides Gone Wild. This is Jen. Thanks for joining me as I try to claw my way out of my post-election black hole of the soul to return to work. That's more important now than ever amplifying women's voices and telling their stories.

Jen:

A few weeks ago I was fortunate to attend the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit that was held at Sunday River, and not only did I run into so many of my favorite pod people, I also had the opportunity to finally corral a guest I'd had on my wishlist for a while Because celebrity fly tire tier, celine Fromberg, aka Celine of Maine, owner of Celine's Fly Shop in Gardner, maine, led two special add-on sessions at the summit and was nice enough to sit down with me for a chat in the kitchen at Evans Notch Lodge before she left town. So we are celebrating Womened Wednesday and Small Business Saturday a little early this year. Celine and I talk about her fishing, tying and guiding, origin stories, entrepreneurship and entomology, floods and flies and, best of all, she shares some awesome tips and gift ideas for the wannabe fly fisher person on your list, even if that person is you Fisher person on your list, even if that person is you. Let's get to the good stuff and hear from the queen of the vice herself, celine of Maine.

Jen:

All right, celine of Maine, fly tire. Extraordinaire shop owner, multifaceted woman of the outdoors, welcome to Guides Gone Wild, cool, cool. So Selene and I are sitting in the kitchen at Evans Notch Lodge just having concluded our attendance at the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit, which was interesting and fun and a great place to connect. It was held at Sunday River this year and selene stayed here at the lodge this week, which was fun. So I got to know her and she's been on my wish list for guests for a long time.

Jen:

So now I get to do it in person, in person, which is fantastic, yeah um, all right, I should put my glasses back on because I want to consult my questions. Yeah, so I I guess I want to. I want to get into a couple of different things. You're from Maine originally. No, you're not. Okay, secret, okay, won't tell that.

Jen:

Then I really want to know then, first off, how you got into fishing and then like why fly fishing? Because that's another whole thing, and then we'll get into the tying and store thing after that. But I want to understand why you were drawn to fishing.

Selene of Maine:

There's lots of different stories in there, lots to unpack. Yeah, so I wasn't born in Maine, but it's of Maine, because I love Maine Kept coming back to Maine. I moved a ton as a kid and there were chunks of it that were in Maine and my dad's from Maine, so he kept coming back to Maine. And then the other half of it was in California, which is where I was born, but who cares?

Selene of Maine:

So Were you on the coast Of Maine when you were in California? Were you close to the water? No, okay, I don't think so. I was there until I was five. Oh, okay. But then when I moved back there when I was 10, I was in Claremont, southern California, but my mother was from Northern California, san Francisco. So different sides of the country, very different dynamics, but we kept coming back to Maine. So, end of college, here's my origin story into fly fishing. End of college, I fly fished for the first time and I was on the water for two hours and I forgot the rest of the world and it was like my ahas and wow, epiphanyany kind of okay, but how did that happen?

Jen:

what brought you all right? So you wind up fly fishing? Yeah, why yeah?

Selene of Maine:

I was a music major, uh-huh, and it was a really tough major and, particularly for me, uh, very intensive. And uh, I was in a relationship at the and I was an extra long major too. I had like an extra senior year and I was in a relationship and this guy had a brother that was in fishing wildlife in Alaska. I was like, wow, salmon, we could go fly fishing for salmon or just go fishing for salmon. But I was like, not just fishing. I had done a little fishing on and off as a kid and I was like that sounds really neat. And so I started reading about fly fishing and I was like, yeah, not just fishing. I had done a little fishing on and off as a kid and I was like that sounds really neat. And so I started reading about fly fishing and I was like, yeah, that's really cool. So I was hoping that we could go to Alaska for the summer.

Selene of Maine:

And things didn't work out because that's how life goes, right and kind of through that breakup, I was like I think I really like this. And my mom actually gave me a book about women in fly fishing and I can't remember exactly what it was, but at the time in the nineties. She actually said you know, I think that you really like this and should think about continuing with this. And so I did, and it was the best decision I probably have ever made in my life. Yeah, and it's something I made as a decision on my own and I think it kind of established my independence and a feeling of something that I could do. That was all about me.

Jen:

So let's, let's poke a little bit more at that. So you're, you know, because, especially cause this was whatever 40 or 30 years ago, at this point, um, what like? So you decided that this was something that you wanted to do. But, like you know, for people even now who are like I don't even know where to start, like, how did you get yourself from the ideation to actual, like doing it?

Selene of Maine:

So I was dirt poor. I mean you talk about poor college students, but I, like I had no support for school, no financial support, no loans. I was doing it entirely on my own. So by the time I got to the end I was like beyond poor. So I was actually it was, I think, actually post-graduation and I had my first substitute teaching job and I actually had a paycheck and the very first paycheck went towards buying an LL Bean, quest Rod and Reel outfit.

Jen:

Even though you'd never really gone yet. No, I'd never gone, you're just like. I think this is going to be my thing, absolutely.

Selene of Maine:

And I had been like eyeing this for months and reading the catalog for that, and every detail, every description memorized that LO Bean catalog for that spring year and so I took that first paycheck and put it towards that, because it was the first time I had an excess of money beyond my living expenses and so I bought a fly rod.

Jen:

Okay, and then you said you hadn't been fly fishing at that point. So did you just go out and hack around by yourself, because it wasn't like you could watch YouTube videos back then to figure out what to do.

Selene of Maine:

No, so actually I bought the LO Bean casting book and I had a VHS tape of how to cast and I remember I lived in Portland at the time and the house that, or the room I was renting at the house, they had a pool and this was early spring, really early like February, late March or early March, and it was still ice and frozen over and this pool had a cover on it and a cyclone fence around it and I was out there practicing on the frozen pool. Oh my God, that's hilarious. I remember casting and and, uh yeah, the the line would get caught in the fence on my back, cast All right.

Jen:

So you got that. So you knew what that was going to feel like when you got on the water Plenty of detangling experience.

Selene of Maine:

And so, uh, yeah, before I even got on the water, before my two hour experience, I'll tell you another funny story is that I needed waders. I knew before I could got on the water, before my two hour experience I'll tell you another funny story is that I needed waders. I knew before I could get in the water I needed waders. Well, I didn't have any more money. So and you know, it's cost prohibitive to start fly fishing, it just that's kind of the way of life. So I said, oh, you know what, some of the guys at the school I'd started working at this long term sub job and Some of the guys at the school I'd started working at this long-term sub job, and they said Beans has an expo for fly fishing or for fishing in general. I said, oh, really, you know, let's go to that. So I went with these couple of guys and we went to the expo and they said there's a raffle. My determined state.

Jen:

I was so determined, I'm going to go win a pair of waders, kind of like what you tried to do with a kayak that didn't know.

Selene of Maine:

So I'm looking back right we'll tell there's a kayak that was being raffled right at this outdoor economy summit, uh, this weekend and last year, and I'm just so into like, just like, oh, I gotta put all the mojo into I am going to win this kayak. I tried, I was like, was like.

Jen:

I was trying to send you signals, right.

Selene of Maine:

I told all kinds of people I just hope that they would hope for me to win this kayak and it's, it's similar. So I've learned a lot about myself in the last 30 years and I put these, these pieces together and, in fact, at my first workshop that I was teaching to tie fly this this weekend, I told the story about how I began, which this story I'm telling now, which is I went to LL Bean 30 years ago, went to this expo, determined to win a pair of waders. So I put my name into the raffle at beans and I'm thinking you know, other people go to win stuff, right? So I tell these guys want to leave and I go no, no, we have to wait until five o'clock at the raffle. And so I go into the room. They're like, okay, we'll wait. So we go into the room where the raffle drawing is going to take place and there's like eight people in there. I'm like I thought there would be hundreds of people here waiting to see what they want, realizing no, not everyone is determined, as I am, okay, and I see thousands of names in there. I mean because there's everyone entering through the entire weekend at this expo, not just a few. So I'm also seeing well, the odds are against me and yet my name gets pulled. Oh my God, not for a pair of waders. And I am so into my own world at the time, as a 23, 24 year old, that I am disappointed I don't wear up and win a pair of waders, but I do win a fly, and it's like one fly, seriously one fly, and it's on a card and it's got a signature.

Selene of Maine:

And these guys that I'm with, who have been fishing longer and are not in the same socioeconomic range, as poor as I am, are like we should hang on to that fly. I'm like well, I don't even saltwater fish or have an interest in it. Why should I? And they're like well, lefty cray tied that fly. Yeah, who the heck is lefty? I'm like if it was on a card, it was fine, exactly Right. There had to be some value there. Who the heck is lefty cray? And I'm like you should hang on to that. Well, they told me to hang on to it and I will. And so you know, of course I did, and I lost it for 10 years, oh God. But I kept my eye out for it. It was in some special box, you know. You tuck things away, yeah, but I did find it again, yeah, so my lefty cray fly, yeah.

Jen:

So did you trade in, did you sell that to get some waiters, or how did you wind up with waiters you just like had to wait, oh, I bought waiters later on Five more paychecks yeah, yeah, yeah.

Selene of Maine:

Somehow or another, I got waiters later on. I was being paid very well. It was probably one of my very highest paying jobs. It was in Gorm as a substitute, yeah.

Jen:

I don't think I've been paid that well even since and that was 30 years ago, yeah, so you get out on the water and it's like DIY start to finish.

Selene of Maine:

Um, yeah, these guys actually helped me a little bit the first time I was in the water. I remember I slipped the first time and my arm got wet and guy helped me up. Uh, he's very nice about it. I'm still in touch with him. He's a good customer of mine now, so you know you do what you got to do the next time I go out fishing and it's on my own. From that point forward it was always on my own. That sub job ended. I was really never in contact with those people after that until I owned a fly shop, probably 15 years later. Did you catch anything?

Jen:

the first time? No, how many times did you go before?

Selene of Maine:

you caught anything, oh geez, a couple more more times at least. And I caught the smallest fish I've ever seen, probably two or three inches long, and uh, I remember what it was. I know I couldn't tell you what it was it was on the Royal River, yeah, but the that, that feeling of that, wow, I forgot my life for two hours. Yeah, all of that stress went away. Yeah, that was remarkable to me and so, to this day forward, from that day forward, I remember I wanted to have other people have that experience. It's kind of like the jumping off point. I want my shop to be the jumping off point for people to have that experience, that Zen experience. I've done casting for recovery. I did that for nine years, a long time ago. But that same sort of thing where you know they're recovering from breast cancer or just the trauma of it because they're immersed literally in what you're doing, that you can't have the rest of life be twittering around up in your head yeah that you're consumed by what you're doing.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, it definitely takes you out of yourself.

Jen:

I will, I would agree with that, my limited experience of trying it out, but like so, another big part of it that I think is a little bit intimidating as you look at, you know, from the outside. Looking in is just all I mean, and I guess this applies to fishing in general. Although it's easy to go out and hack for a sunfish is like more the matching the fly with the, with the water, with the species with it, like there seems like there's much more of a kind of intellectual exercise in where are they, how do I, how do I lure them out of their little hole? What is hatching right now? Like, how did that knowledge all come along?

Selene of Maine:

I was really intimidated by that too the first year. And then I realized, well, there's, where do these flies come from? They're tied, you know that kind of thing. Where do these flies come from? They're tied, you know that kind of thing. And so I said, well, if I learn how to tie the flies, it will help me, especially with the names of the flies. And I'd seen a fly tying book. The first small fly shop I went into after LL Bean, I went into a fly shop that was local. It was in Kennebunkport at the time where I lived, where I'd essentially grown up later years after moving around a lot, and the fly shop owner had in the shop a picture of Cary Stevens with a gray ghost underneath, and I saw that and I asked him about it. He kind of told me who Cary Stevens was and I was like, oh well, that's really cool. And I said to him I said will you buy my flies if I start tying them? And he's just like well, you need to tie a fly first, get good at it.

Jen:

And he says I'm really picky about my flies, you're like no, you don't get it, I commit, and then I actually do it Exactly.

Selene of Maine:

And I was like no, no, no, I'm going to tie flies. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do and, of course, you're going to buy my flies. What kind of intense person I was. He took me out on the lawn and gave me a casting lesson and that was really helpful because I've been flailing on my own and I did okay. That lesson helped out.

Selene of Maine:

We probably it was very cold out and probably again it was in March, I'm sure and well, maybe the next fall. I remember it was cold out but maybe spent 15, 20 minutes with me and I said I really want to tie flies. It was definitely the same year that I started fishing. So for Christmas that year I asked for a fly tying kit and I'm pretty sure I was. It must've been the December of 23.

Selene of Maine:

Got the fly tying kit, started tying and that's how it began and I love the book. How they were set up was like these are caddisflies and these are mayflies and so by tying flies I learned the entomology piece of it, kind of, even if it's the big picture, and I still think it's a great way to learn about fly fishing. Learning those basics will help you get the idea of what the basic entomology and what bugs are when it comes to, you know, most kinds of fishing. You know, even for bass fishing you got to know a little bit about the bugs. You know why are they feeding, at what time of day. And the big picture. You got to understand that big picture. So fly tying can help you with that. Even a fly tying book even if you don't fly tie flies will help you with that.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I mean again took a little fly tying workshop at one of those bow things and it was. It was interesting because then you just start thinking much more about movement in the water and, like you know, the various pieces of a bug that would be notable, you know. It just makes you kind of I don't know, notice a lot of those details that I would not normally think about because you know I'm not a big bug fan, right, so the tying kind of took on a pathway of its own. It sounds like.

Selene of Maine:

Life of its own, right away.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, tell me more about that.

Selene of Maine:

Started tying. I had that. Well, then I got my first job, teaching job, in which I was told there were going to be two interviews and I did one interview and it's the only job I applied for for teaching. I was a music teacher. I wasn't really excited about teaching music Again, I was an education major hesitantly.

Selene of Maine:

So here I am, like all right, I'm going to interview for some jobs and if it doesn't work out, it's okay, I'll go to grad school. I had some other interests musicology. So I did one interview and I said how do I get there? It was Monmouth and I opened up the gazetteer to map 12. And I said, oh, there's a lot of blue on that map. And I did the one interview and they offered me the job instead of two interviews. Like they tell you in college, you're going to do two interviews, you're going to show your portfolio. And I'm just like no, they didn't care. And I understand now why. Which is, I am the cheapest one, they're going to pay, yeah, and so you had a pulse and you were new, I was one green warm body yep, yes, and in hindsight you know, I wish I hadn't done that.

Selene of Maine:

Of course it definitely changed the direction trajectory of my life. But taking that job also set me up in a town where they had a sporting goods shop and they had a fishing department, and so, because that job was only four fifths, I had a day off during the week and they told me not to come to school during that week. So for a while, of course, I was working five days and not being paid for the fifth day. But the other people said, well, it's a contract year, we're negotiating that contract and so you really shouldn't show up here. So I said I'm going to get a job in a fly shop, and I did, and so that was 1994. And so I've.

Selene of Maine:

I've always worked in a fly shop or been involved in fly fishing since then. So that's it's been 30 years professionally working in the industry. Yeah, and it's a lot because that was a four fifths job. And I took the job after one interview and that's how it worked out, and I would say it's a blessing in disguise, because it was not a full-time job and I was being paid $14,000 a year to work as a teacher after all of that. So I stuck it out there for eight years and you know it is what it is.

Selene of Maine:

But I'm most grateful for that opportunity that really a third of my working year was in fly fishing and I loved it. So I got my guides license I, I think the next year or at the end of that year. Um, I started a class to become a guide, really just to learn about it, love learning. So, uh, it was a very intensive class, was 16 weeks long, by the one of the wardens who actually helped write the test at the time, yeah, um, and there's all kinds of stories that could go on and on 16 weeks.

Jen:

Wow, that's like that's old school.

Selene of Maine:

Oh yeah, and there were three, three hours. Yeah, like a community college or something nearby it was actually at the shop, um, but it was a full class. There were like 25 people in the class and any other women just out of curiosity?

Jen:

Yeah, I think there were a couple.

Selene of Maine:

I was also pregnant at the time with my first child. A lot happened that year yeah, sounds like it. I entered a fly tying contest Lefty Cray and Dave Whitlock were the judges and they thought I was in the junior category because I was wearing overalls and I always looked really young. Yeah, but they would judge me. They thought I was in the junior category, didn't talk to me and then when they thought, oh, you won the adult category. Oh, fantastic.

Selene of Maine:

And then they started talking to me. But, um, so that's my my second interaction with Lefty Cray, yeah, seriously. Then I'm like, oh, I should get that fly and I couldn't find it. That's when I knew it was missing. I didn't find it for years, uh later, until I moved.

Jen:

Oh that's funny, yeah, so let's jump ahead, because you know you've been in retail obviously for a long time, kind of in and out, in and out, yeah, it was time flies professionally all that time, time for fly shops, working in different fly shops.

Selene of Maine:

As one shop would close, I'd work in another fly shop. I was time for almost every fly shop. I would say in the state that's an exaggeration. There are some that I'm sure I didn't, but most everything locally I was tying for at one time or another.

Jen:

Um, were there any like golden years you can think back on I mean the year that I made fly tire magazine.

Selene of Maine:

I was the, the tire profile and all of a sudden, and the internet had become a real thing and I was getting emails to tie flies. So it was called the modern day, carrie Stevens and that changed things I'm looking to see if I can find that online 2003.

Selene of Maine:

The picture is horrible. It is a riot. So I'm nine months pregnant and Dave Klausmeier would not. I'm waiting until I wouldn't take a picture of myself For some reason. I'm just like I am pregnant, like I don't fit into waiters picture of myself For some reason. I'm just like I'm pregnant, like I don't fit into waiters. I'm it's my second child at that point and I'm like um, I just can't come up with doing a picture. So he comes to my house and takes a picture, like the week I give birth I am so bloated and I got this blotchy face and I'm thinking he's going to take a picture of me at my vice with my hands. Well, he did take some of those pictures at my house, but the one that he submits for, the picture of fly tire, is just a headshot. I'm like I could have given you a headshot.

Selene of Maine:

Right. If you just told me to do a headshot, it would have been fine, it was very funny. So, uh, I still look back at that and like that picture is horrible. So I and I have that, but I cringe. I'm proud. Exactly, Exactly Right. There's always something wrong.

Jen:

That's funny.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, but that was the best year. I got like 400 orders from that. Wow, oh yeah, that would. That would do it Absolutely. And I wasn't tying those in my hands. It wasn't until the next year. I don't think that I was tying flies in my hands without advice, like Carrie Stevens, I just decided to take it on and try it and I was just like this isn't that bad.

Jen:

And I said did you, did you teach people to do that yesterday or on Wednesday? I'm sorry.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, oh, that's right. You said you brought vices Right, brought vices and did it with a vice. But um, for demonstration purposes and to kind of promote Carrie Stevens and keep the tradition alive, I do it as a demo to show people like how it was done. Literally a hundred years ago the gray ghost was created by Carrie Stevens in Rangeley, and so I do tie gray ghosts and other of her flies in my hands without a vice and try to use authentic materials as much as possible. Yeah, we don't know exactly how she did it, so I'm sure my methods are not identical to how she did, but that's what I do, just to demonstrate that it can be done, that it can be done.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Keep the party going, absolutely. So let's talk about Celine's. Is it called? It's Celine's Fly Shop, right, celine's.

Selene of Maine:

Fly Shop yeah.

Jen:

So let's talk about Celine's Fly Shop. Like why, when and what's it been. Like, yeah, when and what's it been like. Yeah, so unexpected I mean because you've worked in retail quite a bit, so like, yeah, I'm sure you kind of felt pretty confident going into it. But like I also would love to hear about any surprises that have come up on right.

Selene of Maine:

So I raised kids. Life is complicated. You do whatever you can, right, you get by. And then here we are. After the pandemic in august I think 22 three of our kids moved out in the same week and our oldest dog died like three weeks before that. So it was like three kids moving out. We said, free, at last I can open a fly shop. And that's what we did. So the next month we actually opened in Gardner, uh-huh, uh. So downtown water street, uh, in downtown Gardner we opened a fly shop and got a small loan and a kind of a tiny loan. When I go back and I think about it, yeah, and got some inventory and gave it a go and it's the best decision I've made in a very, very long time.

Jen:

I'm intrigued by this, though, because from a retail perspective, like I got to, there's just we were talking about this a little bit yesterday there's like a million billion SKUs, right. I mean, I guess some of this stuff will be not necessarily high investment stuff.

Selene of Maine:

No, no, no.

Jen:

There's a lot of things that you need to have in order to be kind of a full service shop, Right Along with you know, the expensive, high end stuff which is like the reels and the rods and all that stuff Known as a fly tire.

Selene of Maine:

I was willing to take that on to sell materials because I know what to buy and I've done it for other shops. I've ordered their fly tying materials, so I knew what I was getting into, as well as and I hadn't done this before, I hadn't done high-end rods, so that was a bigger investment that I was more nervous about, because everyone says oh, you're opening a fly shop, what rods are you going to have? That's the question. So I about. Because everyone says oh, you're opening a fly shop, what rods you gonna have? Yeah, that's the question. So I had a harder time finding the right rod so I could answer that question. Nobody cares about that now as much. They're like oh, you have a fly shop? Yeah, and they don't even ask me that well, what rods do you carry? It comes up once in a while yeah, but I do have high-end rods.

Jen:

I got low-end rods, I got the middle right, serving all aspects and you didn't open it to be like, have an online component necessarily although I'm sure you do now, but so, like, what made you pick that spot? I mean, did you? Like market research did you do to know like, hey, this is a good spot it is a good spot.

Selene of Maine:

But yeah, did market research. But I know the state well enough is that it's good location. It's at the confluence of the kabasi. That's full name is kabasi k. It's at the confluence of the Cabasee full name is Cabasee-Conti stream with the confluence of the Kennebec river. There used to be a fly shop very well known, owned by Mike Holt, called Fly Fishing Only, and that was in Fairfield.

Jen:

Maine.

Selene of Maine:

And that was right on the Kennebec river, so it was a beloved fly shop. It closed probably well now I guess it'd be about 14 years ago and it closed pretty suddenly for a variety of reasons. But it's very missed and so we knew that having a fly shop on the Kennebec River was going to be good. Also, having it near the highway, so that people going north and south would be able to get to it easily. Not having it as a destination shop, as in you're going to fish on the Kennebec River right here, wasn't as important to us. So while we live a couple of towns away, we're willing to drive that half an hour to get to Gardner. Another reason why opening a shop in Gardner was good is that they have a great downtown association called Gardner Main Street. That is very supportive of the downtown businesses, and so they helped us. You know, find a place, get started, and you know we wouldn't be in business.

Selene of Maine:

I don't think without them. They've been fantastic as a support.

Jen:

So smart to be near the highway because there's just so. There's so much, there's so much water north of you that people are heading to.

Selene of Maine:

So that is super smart. So either exit north or south. There's two exits for Gardner. It doesn't matter which one you take at seven miles off and you make it brings you right onto Water Street. So it's so easy and we've heard that you know. You Google whatever fly shop and it will bring you right to it Right there. Yeah, so that's, that's been very convenient and easy. It's also a great distance from any other fly shop. We look at fly shops in Maine as being collaborators, not competition. We like to complement what they have, you know, being the distance we are from every other fly shop. It kind of puts us centrally located within all the other fly shops that are in the state. We're kind of the one in the middle along that side of the highway. So it's a good location and good area in the state.

Jen:

Are you the only female owner-operator of a fly shop in Maine?

Selene of Maine:

In Maine, absolutely, in New England I'm not. Actually, Daddy's Flies is co-owned by a woman and I don't know. I'm sure there are other ones in the country. I think there are other ones in New York, yeah, but that's what interesting.

Jen:

Any unexpected like was there anything that came up that you're like whoa didn't see this coming?

Selene of Maine:

oh yeah, the ceiling collapsing, the pipes bursting and being closed for three weeks, where everything in the store is wet. Dealing with that landlord, we ended up leaving. Building Gardner Main Street helped us find another location just down the street, which is gorgeous, and we will stay there forever. So we're in a fantastic location, still on Water Street, just a couple doors down, and that opportunity became available. If we had seen that a year before, we wouldn't have been able to take it. We didn't have the experience, we didn't have enough inventory, we didn't have all the things that we needed that we had a year later. So we grew and then we could. We grew into the location that we're in now. So everything fell into place as it needed to right and then the flood came one month after we opened and then we found out how good our location was right. It's like we got tested a month later and we 20 feet floodwaters, 20 feet high came all the way up to the ceiling of the basement. We didn't really have anything in the basement. This is December.

Jen:

Last December, yep last.

Selene of Maine:

December, and then everything came up to the ceiling of the basement. We didn't have anything good down there, but, unlike all of our neighbors neighbors, essentially our electrical panels are on our first floor. We, our landlord, has a new furnace that is natural gas on the first floor, and so, you know, we just waited for the water to go down. I mean, it was a little hair raising, yeah, you know, waiting to see whether how high it was going come, and then we were a week without power, but I stayed open for it. I was closed for a day and a half or two days, something like that, and it was right before Christmas. So we need those Christmas dollars. So you know, we fared better than anybody else on the block. It might've been leaders and saying listen, if you, if it's just power that you don't have, you can still run your sales through your phone. If you have Square or some other POS system and let's make a goal of it we don't have to shut down, right, you know? Yeah.

Selene of Maine:

So, we did okay, yeah, and so we've been through that and we can do it again if we need to. We're knocking on wood. Yeah, it will happen. Gardner is quite resilient. It's a great community and there is so much to do down there that people don't even realize. We have fantastic restaurants. We're directly across the street from Johnson Hall. It's an opera house that was redone, took two years to do. It's historic, it's gorgeous now and they've got a lot of great shows that come to it. And we're doing a show there tomorrow. Oh yeah, film the film festival, that's right.

Jen:

Me and outdoor film festival, that's, that's pretty, that's gonna be awesome. Um, so let's talk about, yeah, a couple other things I want to talk about. Um, are you still guiding?

Selene of Maine:

so, yeah, guiding has been a like a thorn in my side. So I got my guides license. Not because I wanted to guide, necessarily, but that kind of tends to be a theme Like I like the education part of it and then it's hard to emotionally get out there and do the thing. Yes, so my very first time guiding, I got in a little little hot water and it's a good story I'm not going to tell, because it's actually the first chapter of a book I'm kind of working on all right, so someday it might come out.

Jen:

Might come out. You want to know the story by pre-order the book?

Selene of Maine:

yeah, it has a title. It's had a title for 10 years. Don't judge a woman by her waders stories of a guide and the evolution of her flies. Yeah, that's a good one. Stories of a Guide and the Evolution of Her Flies, oh.

Jen:

I like it. That's a good subtitle, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm asking that as much, being curious about whether you're still guiding. But also I think that one of the things that maybe having witnessed groups come here to go fly fishing with groups it's been in a very controlled environment where there's been a lot of support for that undertaking, in a very controlled environment where there's been a lot of support for that undertaking. But I think that a lot of the reason that, um, the folks that come to like the outcast camp out here come is because they don't want to have to facilitate that for themselves right outside of this nice safe environment.

Jen:

So for people who are like, yes, I'm curious, yes, I'm, but I'm not going to watch 700. You know, I'm not going to be a DIYer like you were. I'm not going to. You know what I'm curious about? Like, how can you find a good guide? What are the questions you should ask? You know, what do you? What should you look for if you're like literally a brand new person and you want to go with somebody and feel safe and supported and, you know, have a great?

Selene of Maine:

experience. So I am just in my life figuring out that not everybody is a DIYer and not everybody has done things the way that I do, because I've been like in this survival sort of I didn't. I'm just learning that I mean, I guess I knew that people were kind of like people pay for everything, right, right, but that seemed like a group of people that is very far away from me, right.

Selene of Maine:

Right a group of people that is very far away from me, right, but there are a lot of people who want to take up the sport and how and how to, especially being a fly shop owner. How can I make it more approachable and bridge the gap? I want to help figure that out. So I am looking at that more closely and hiring guides through my shop, or even, um, not myself hiring guides directly or recommending guides. That's what I want. So recommending guides who are approachable.

Selene of Maine:

Not all guides are approachable, so some of them do it with money. They'll just say my price is outrageous. So a good way to find a good guide is to find a guide who has a price that is approachable but not too approachable guide is to find a guide who has a price that is approachable but not too approachable. So I've also found that the price that a guide is asking, if it's too low, people tend to say they're not getting something good, so people tend to under they'll under price themselves as a guide when they're new, but that doesn't mean necessarily you're getting someone who's inexperienced.

Selene of Maine:

And Maine it's kind of neat because it's a really tough test that you have to take, thanks to Flyard Crosby, that you've got to take and that we've kept up with for most of the years since 1897. And we trust in that. But experience goes a long way in guiding and I have found for me personally it's hard to get that experience. I've had trouble feeling confident about guiding so I and I don't know why exactly I think it's more about just how I'm built exactly the things you can ask for in a guide not every guide is instructs well.

Selene of Maine:

I think there's two kinds of guides. One is the typical guide, I should say, will put you on fish. They fish a lot, they know their water well, that they're taking you to and they'll put you on fish. The second kind of guide can do that, but they're a special breed in that they can also teach, and those are the ones I look for. I would rather have a whole batch of those that I can recommend. Those tend to be the teachers, actually literally the teachers who are guiding part-time on their summer break, and I know of a few of those, and that's an important thing to ask. So if you're a hiring guide, ask if they instruct while they are guiding, or how and how long they've been doing it. Now they can be new at it. Which is really good is that they'll tend to know if they're good instructors. If they've been doing it a very long time, they're not likely to be really good instructors.

Selene of Maine:

I hate to say Now, that's not true for everybody, but I find myself, having done it this long, is that I'm a little less patient than I used to be. Yeah, and so I wouldn't put myself in that category where I've. Also, I listen to a lot of podcasts and I find the curve that we might be on for doing it so long is that if you do something for a very long time, you forget what it's like to be a newbie. Yeah, once you're a newbie you learn all these things and then you get good at that and you want to teach people because you remember what it was like to be new, right, but once you get so good at it, you forget those little new things, that how you learn something and how you can phrase something. Those little, those phrases mean so much you take more and more stuff for granted.

Jen:

I think, right, it's just like been embedded in your gray matter and it doesn't even occur to you that you learned it at some point. Exactly yeah.

Selene of Maine:

Okay, those little steps at the beginning, like how to string up a fly rod yeah, you know how to walk through the woods, these these things are kind of coming back to me having not done it for a while, like because I was raising kids, right. And then it's like, okay, I guided this summer and I oh, I'll notice that, which is good when I'm out with a few people and it's like, oh yeah, I used to teach people to do that. I got to incorporate that again. So like I'm rusty and I got to get back into it. Yeah, there are a few things like that, but, uh, so what to look for in a guide is someone who's been guiding for long enough, but not necessarily too long, right, right?

Jen:

And it sounds like if you've got, if you can you know, if you're lucky enough to have a shop in your area and you feel comfortable going into the shop, chances are the person that they would recommend would be a good fit, because they'll.

Jen:

you know, and I do think too, sometimes it's really just about like pushing to have a conversation with whoever it is. Like don't just like sign up for something on the internet and expect to have a great experience. Like, if you're concerned about anything or being able to learn, or being able to feel comfortable, then just like get on the phone with the person.

Selene of Maine:

You'll. You'll be able to tell if you can talk to them and you know. Then see how it goes. Yeah, we also live in different times. Yeah, I'm learning this. I think this is really cool, is that? And again, I like to learn, so this is neat, is that?

Selene of Maine:

I think I'm a little unusual for my age, necessarily. Is that owning a fly shop in this day and age with the internet? Is that younger people who I want to connect with they do things differently, and then having kids my age in their 20s is a learning through them as well. Is that they're gonna connect in a different way. Community means something different to them and community is important to me, but how they do it is differently. The online stuff is different.

Selene of Maine:

They're learning online, but I also hear from a lot of people, different age groups, is that they get overwhelmed with learning fly. Is that they get overwhelmed with learning fly fishing online? Yes, they get overwhelmed with learning fly tying online and there aren't enough resources, there aren't enough fly shops period to go to to say how can I do this? Do you have classes? Do you have this Right? It just there aren't enough of those. Yeah, so they're kind of stuck with feeling overwhelmed with what's online. So, again, how to bridge that gap.

Selene of Maine:

I learned a lot of stuff at the Economy Summit, got all kinds of ideas in my head and some of these have to do with different ways that we reach out, and it might be finding a mentor, not necessarily hiring a guide and having that expense. How can we get some of these people who know about fly fishing and then have them be mentors to some people? There's a lot of different non-profit groups where they're willing to mentor. Your TU organizations is just one example. Tu is Trout Unlimited. They're all over the country. Conservation group primarily, most of them fly fish who are members, but there's all kinds of other organizations too. I keep hearing these words nonprofit all weekend long or all week long and then thinking about there's so many of them out there, but finding these groups women's groups, you know.

Jen:

Yeah, and a lot of them are. Like. You know, I hate Facebook, but there are a lot of Facebook groups too, like if you're looking for somebody locally that you might be able to find, and even if it's I honestly think, even if it's another person who's kind of a beginner and kind of in your boots, but you're both going to bring different things that you've DIY'd to the table, and even if it's just that you find somebody to go fishing with, I think that's a huge plus Buddying up is yeah, it's so valuable, yeah.

Selene of Maine:

And then you'll notice something about what someone else is doing or what's not working and saying, hey, have you noticed this? Yeah, how can we do this better? Let's figure this out together. Yeah, it makes a tremendous difference. Yeah, I mean my learning curve. What would it be like if I had people to fish with? I think I didn't get anybody to fish with for at least that first time I went out. I was with someone and I fell in the water, got my arm wet.

Jen:

I don't think I went out with anybody for another at least two years, yeah and to a certain extent, there's a lot of people that wouldn't feel comfortable with that, you know, and it's probably not advisable to get out in the water all by yourself, you know. And so we say that, yeah, and then you do the opposite because, that's by nature who I was.

Selene of Maine:

Right. Right.

Selene of Maine:

And then I would say working in the industry and being out on the water, even with other people. Then I got married and I'd be out on the water. I never saw a woman in Maine fishing alone for another 20 years. I think times have changed, they're different, but I used to hear on the West Coast how there were people, women, fishing. You know how it wasn't unusual on the West Coast during the late 90s, 2000s. And I was surprised, like that, like why are Mainers like this, independent Mainers, eyes like that, Like why are Mainers like this independent Mainers?

Selene of Maine:

And I find that I would run classes or I'd be in other flash shops that have classes and women weren't attending, or you'd have a woman only class and no one would sign up. That it's by nature how women tended to be in Maine. That's changing and I I'm happy about that. That's definitely changing. We have women's only classes at the shop. We have a free women's class once a month, our women's angling group and the whoever, the people that attend. That change every month. I've got different people who are coming in. So there's lots of interest and people are participating, women are participating and it's great to see. Yeah, so that dynamic is changing for the better, yeah.

Jen:

Yeah, I love that. I think that is good and you know, I get it. I mean, a lot of times I would think I think a lot of women are as afraid of other humans as they are of like nature or mishaps, you know. And so if you can find a safe human to go out with and you know, then it just gets you into it that much more, which is awesome. Okay, um, okay, we, you don't have to go here if you don't want to.

Jen:

But we talked earlier this week about you being kind of newly self-recognizing as as being somebody who's not let's call it neuro divergent. Yeah, so I'm curious about is that giving you any perspective on why you were drawn to fishing in the first place, or why you've kind of progressed the way you have, or anything like that. It just it occurred to me earlier today. I'm like, oh, you know, I wonder if there's anything there that, if you stop to think about it, you're like, oh, this is why perhaps you're learning, perhaps the fact that you're realizing that people don't DIY it the way you do no like because, like, we have these terms now and it's funny, Cause, like oh, on my Facebook feed, neurodivergent thinking comes up.

Selene of Maine:

I'm like what the heck is this? And I learn now that I think, like this and this is a label, and it's a label I'm now willing to put on myself. And then I look back, going, oh, that's why I did that. Well, that's why college was hard. But yet, you know, elementary, middle school was really easy. This is what it means to think outside the box, you know. So, yes, looking back in hindsight, going, oh, all these labels now, well, these labels are actually really easy, you know to see, to read about, because, my goodness, I mean, they're showing up on my feed like every day.

Jen:

To a certain extent, there's so much talk about it now that, like you, could almost see something of everything in yourself, whether you really are neurodivergent or not. You know, because I mean, there are characteristics that are positive and negative to everything and to everybody and it's like, yeah, you know it overlaps, but I think you know, as somebody who you you got an official diagnosis at some point right, right.

Selene of Maine:

So yeah, a year ago, I go to my doctor. I'm like, I'm exhausted all the time. Well, she's been hearing this for a long time. She saw a very short story, without telling you everything about me, without oversharing, which I tend to do. She says I don't know why I didn't come up with this 10 years ago for you, but you have ADD or ADHD, whichever one it is. And I'm like, no, because my son has it and he's. We've known this about him and have treated him for for years. He's now 26.

Selene of Maine:

And he is a special human being and in a lot of ways, and I'm just like but he hated school and really had a difficult time in school, and yet I loved school.

Selene of Maine:

Well, that's just the difference between how I would love to, like I would focus on school and loved to hyper focus when I was in school, and then how he just that wasn't where his focus was going to be and that he would do the opposite and that was a symptom of his ADD. So we could see it more obviously and you can see it in boys more, and he didn't have the hyperactivity. And, of course, this is an older diagnosis for him and we know more about it now, right? So then you say, oh, you know older women being diagnosed with ADD? And I'm just like, no doctor, you're throwing this around, right. And she's like, no, I don't just throw this around, I'm like get out of town. So for the last year I've been really tossing this around and like how much of what I do is this diagnosis and how much of it is not, and how much of it interferes with and yeah, it's like this is who I am.

Selene of Maine:

And this is yeah, a lot of my past has been based upon yeah, I've got ADD. Well, how do?

Jen:

you think I'm curious to see, yeah, how you think your passions.

Selene of Maine:

So fly tying, these passions come in. Why did I latch on to fly tying and why has that been my career choice? And why fly? And why, uh, fly fishing? So fly fishing works? Because, my god, it's my been, my escape. I go back to that two-hour experience. Why did that work for me? Why does it always work for me and why do I love that experience so much? Every time I go fishing, except when I had kids, when they were infants, I had a hard time and it's like that feeling of my milk letting down was just so awesome right, I mean and even that, uh, I think was relatively unique in how, how much I loved that experience and and couldn't get away from that when I was fly fishing.

Selene of Maine:

I have guide stories about that which will be in the book. That got got me in trouble. But the intensity in which I latch on to things, so the fly tying part of it is more about the intensity that I'll do something, stay with it, and that how quick the gratification is to do one oh, okay, do another one. How can I fix that? Okay, do a third one one. Okay, now that one's looking good. Now I need to do numbers four, five and six. They need to look alike.

Selene of Maine:

And I tell people if you want to be a good tire, that's how you do it. You tie a half dozen and that should kind of be the sequence. And I realize now I've been saying that for years to people who tie well, not everyone's going to do it that way, they're not going to think that way, and I only do that on the good days. So on the bad, neurodivergent ADD days is like you know I'm going to do one pattern, it's going to suck, I throw it aside. I want to pick a different pattern? Yeah, right, yeah, and, and then that's, and then I'm going to pick a different pattern. And I'm going to pick a different pattern. So it did take me a while because, you know, on my not so good days I say that and yet I was tying professionally, within a year of me tying flies. So people are going to look at my story and say, well, no, it's not really true, because within a short amount of time I was tying really good flies and doing it well.

Selene of Maine:

I also say in my lifetime, of all my careers, because there's been a few as we all have right is that the only thing I ever felt successful at and kept coming back to was fly fishing. Fly time is that for some reason, I always get the feedback that I need to keep me going, but other things. So one diagnosis of add is that I'm really hard on myself, right, and just don't feel successful at the other things. I don't get the feedback that I need, but in, in fly fishing I do, and I met someone else at this conference and in the last year we talked about this more so who has also had the diagnosis of ADD and like, what's the one thing that you do that you feel good? Fishing, yeah, you know, it's fish, anything related to fish, yeah, and so you know there's a similarity.

Selene of Maine:

Other people come in and it's like I can spot them coming in the door within 30 seconds. Yeah, right, and I've been really good about not saying you, you know, not pegging them into saying it out loud. But there's a real commonality here. Yeah, you know, and not just because it's a hobby. It's like, well, how many hobbies you have, what? How many hobbies do you have? And that you bring them, you bring them, that you have to bring them to a professional level, so to speak, was that you, you bring them to a level where you start selling your work. So like I started doing watercolors and now I'm selling them, and then right, but my parents were artists.

Jen:

I know that I justify it in that way yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, but you know, no, that's interesting that I I was just curious, because I'm like, yeah, I was just curious, so that yeah, there's probably all kinds of other things I could bring up about ADD, but you know they're escaping me right now.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jen:

Case in point right. Yeah, exactly. All right. So a couple more things, I guess. Getting back to just that beginner's mindset, what would you, what would you say, is like the minimum viable kit that you should try to get your hands on. To get out on the water, and give it a try.

Selene of Maine:

So I looked at my numbers and what I sold in the last year and I sold more, of course, beginner outfits and I've got one that I sell that I really like. And then I started thinking about renting and I put out a poll at the summit and I've gotten responses. How many of you would rent a kit for $50 for one day, so you could try it before you buy it and you could buy the same outfit later on? So my minimum kit here's what I have to say about that Don't buy from a big box store a cheap kit Because you think, oh, it's inexpensive. I'm going to try it out that way. What's even in a kit?

Jen:

first off, oh, an outfit. You should call it an outfit so it's a rod, reel and a line.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, the most important things in that outfit one is your rod. Equally important is your fly line and most people overlook that Way down the list is your reel, because your reel, when you start off, you're not going to be catching big fish If you are bass, trout or anything smaller than that. Your reel is really a line holder so you don't have to worry. If it has a good drag system and it can be very inexpensive because you're not using it while you're fishing, so to speak. It's really there for when you start your day out on the water, when you end your day on the water. So you really want a decent, good name fly line. So if you buy an outfit, usually it's a no name discount line. So I use echo base or they call lift kits echo lift kit and those retail for 189. I've never had one come back.

Jen:

I really like the action on that's got all three, has all three.

Selene of Maine:

That's all of it, and it comes with the case, yeah, you know a good case where you don't have to take the reel off even yeah, so it makes it easier for beginners as well there.

Jen:

And then waders, if it's cold weather.

Selene of Maine:

I'll tell you I don't sell waders. Really They've been a problem yeah.

Jen:

Women's waders especially, I think, are a pain in the ass, miss. Mayfly is good.

Selene of Maine:

They are sized well. So I carry a pair of those and I recommend people use the size chart. The size chart, the size chart is true to what they say. I can order those and I'm happy to, and I've had a very good response about those. But other than that, uh, waiters and having an expectation that's here's. Here's the problem with waiters. People have an expectation that they're going to pay that much money for a pair of waterproof pants that they should last a long time, and it's a high expectation to have that something's going to hold or keep the water out for that long, especially when you're walking around in rocks. Right, the most important thing about your waders you need to think about is that it's a piece of safety equipment. What you have at the bottom of your soul most importantly is a piece of safety equipment to keep you from falling in the water.

Jen:

Yeah, so if you're going to say you know what, you're right. I'm not going to invest in waders out of the out of the jump, I'm just going to go warmer weather slash, stay on the shore. Mostly, what do you wear?

Selene of Maine:

on your feet. You could still buy a pair of wader boots and then you, you buy the wader boots so that they fit. Don't go by the number, necessarily, that you normally have. If you think that you can go in the water and wear fleece, you can layer so that the water is you're going to stay warm. Waders is better, but if you think you're going to be in warmer water, you're going to stay warm. Have a pair of wader boots that fit you, with wool socks or neoprene socks and have a either a felt bottom or the rubber bottom with studs. You know, go with a wader boot. I wear a wader boot most of the season and I just have a big pair of wool socks and I just bring the fleece or the long wool sock over my laces as if it's a gaiter. I have no, no issues. Yeah, walking around in those, my regular wader boots. Yeah, no, that makes sense, it's a cheaper way to go.

Jen:

So it's like keep yourself warm. You get your startup kit and then otherwise just like a utility tool, like a Leatherman or something like that. A net maybe I haven't fished with a net in years. See, there you go. See, that's my whole point, you don't need as much stuff as you think.

Selene of Maine:

No, you need a pair of nail clippers. Yeah, that's what you can use to clip your line. Yeah, I really think a pair of clamps forceps is really handy, because everyone's scared of what am I going to do when I have a fish and I say keep it in the water? And I just take my forceps and I go down to my fly, clamp your fly and just turn the forceps and it comes right out of the fish. Go barbless. Those clamps will also clamp down that barb before you fish with it. Safety for you and good for the fish. Yeah, so then when you have a fish on, just keep it in the water, go down and, because you've got a tight line, you're going to clamp the fly, give it a turn and the fish comes off. Yeah, you know, it's a beautiful experience for everyone involved.

Jen:

Yeah, no, that sounds absolutely Okay. So I still need to ask you your favorite piece of gear under $50.

Selene of Maine:

Oh you know what? Or most useful. I love poly leaders. So we all get bent about making tying knots and leaders. What's a leader versus tippet? For beginners, I'm in love with polyleaders so they come with a loop on the end most fly lines. If you get a good fly line you know it's good because there's a loop on the end. So you just learn the simple loop-to-loop connection. But polyleaders are so supple and nice, they turn your fly over really well so they make a bad cast look good. They last longer. And what makes your life easier?

Selene of Maine:

At the end of that poly leader, to make it last for literally years, a number of seasons, you do the hard part of tying on a tippet ring. So I would say the poly leaders and tippet rings. And then you, that tippet ring makes it easy so that you can just tie your tippet onto that tippet ring. If you break off, chances are it's going to break at that tippet ring and so you're always tying new tippet onto that tippet ring. If you break off, chances are it's going to break at that tippet ring and so you're always tying new tippet onto that tippet ring and it lasts for so long and it makes things easier. So it is a little bit of a change.

Selene of Maine:

But you are not buying liters like you normally would. When you're starting out Buying tapered liters for $7, you're going to buy a poly liter put out by Airflow. Usually there are other companies that have them and you have to think about it a little differently. So for one second, if you buy a five foot tapered liter, you're going to put five feet of mono on of your tippet on. That makes it a 10 foot liter. You could make that shorter if you want. That's fine. But you're not tapering down with different lengths of tippet. You just put your 5X tippet on a 5-foot leader. It's beautiful. It does simplify things. One less thing to think about yeah, you're not out there with a bunch of spools of tippet.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah you know, you got your 5X or your 4X?

Jen:

Yeah, because this whole conversation is why it would be like oh yeah, I'm not doing that Right. There's too many things, too much vocabulary, too many things to think about.

Selene of Maine:

I just keep it simple. Yeah, yeah, you know you just, you really just need a poly leader and one spool of tippet and then, as you use it up or it breaks off, you tie it on, right. So you really actually, with that system, you only need to know one knot. Yeah, you just need to know how to tie on a fly, because that's the same knot you would tie your tippet to that ring with.

Jen:

And I feel like if you get through that, by the time you use all of that, you'll know if you're into it and you'll be sucking up all the information that you can about everything by then, or you'll be like you know what, this isn't my jam and like no loss, no foul. Yeah, you got two things instead of 15.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, right, right, if you rent an outfit for 50 bucks right, in which, in my case, if I decide I'm going to go this route, which I think I will a not card is going to come with. It shows you how to tie the card and I'll probably have a qr code. It's going to bring you to a video that's also going to show you how to do it, because don't you hate it when you're like I can't, I'm not going to take the time to look at those steps. Right, right, if someone showed you how to do it, well, it's like someone standing beside you showing you how to do it. Yeah, so you know, if you have a little bit of some resources to go with it, it would be handy to do that. Yeah.

Jen:

Nope, that's a good um, all right. So how's everybody going to find you and your shop? So we talked about that. You're in Gardner and Water Street, but people want to find you online. Where should they go? Social media where, where? Where?

Selene of Maine:

yeah, so I'm in all kinds of places. I did start right from the get-go having a website, actually, a couple months later having a website selling everything online, I did just rebuild the website, so selenesflyshopcom pretty easy fly shopcom and my name is like, not selene dion, my name is like the greek goddess of the moon um s e oh yeah, yeah, I'm like I had to back up and be like not selene dion.

Selene of Maine:

Oh yeah, yeah, you pronounce it that way yes, but it is spelled differently, so it's like serene, but with an l there. You go yep go Yep, s-e-l-e-n-e, yep, and then the S because it's plural. Yeah, I possess them.

Jen:

S-E-L-E. So it's at selenesflyshopcom and is it at selenesflyshop everywhere?

Selene of Maine:

else pretty much At selenesflyshop. Yeah, facebook and Instagram are my two right now, nice.

Jen:

What did we miss? What did we not talk about?

Selene of Maine:

Everything in between. Yeah, I've got a lot of flies, like 16,000 flies. Oh, you know what All of my stuff at the shop is, almost all of it. I strive to have American-made if not made-made but American-made, products. So my flies are tied by Mainers, so they're locally tied. I know who's tying them, if not tied by me. I've got six or eight other tires, so on my About page you can see who's tying what flies. Nice, yeah, you can put an order direct to those tires if you want. I don't, I'm not about. You know, everything doesn't have to come through the shop, because I want people to know that it's a real human being and who they are keeping things local.

Selene of Maine:

The byline for the shop is you finally found your local fly shop, even online. Ask questions. We want to be approachable to everybody, anybody who wants to be in the sport. We've got all of our brands, our rods Winston made in America, scottott made in america, and we collaborate with main fly company. They're right in yarmouth and then we also have echo fly rods. So echo is not made in america, but they are all designed by tim rage f and they are an american company. There is no approachable rod in a price point that can get people to try out the sport.

Jen:

But they all come with a very good guarantee from Eko, get them while they're hot, because maybe there won't be any affordable intro rods in a couple years.

Selene of Maine:

That's what you get, though, from Eko is you get a guarantee? Is if you get a rod or an outfit from that's cheaper from a big box store you'd get no guarantee. So if you break it which is pretty likely, happens very easily we can back it up at the shop or right through the company. From Echo, Same thing with reels. We carry Lampson and we carry Ross and again two American companies, and they're the most affordable. So I mean you can get reels and a combination of reels starting at $149.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, nice yeah. Of course we're having this conversation at the wrong time of year, because everyone's going to get all fired up about fly fishing and it's not necessarily the season. But, it's almost the holiday season it is so if you think you want to get into it next year. Maybe you can lay down some heavy duty hints.

Selene of Maine:

This is my busy. This starts my busy season. Yeah, Because it's fly tying season.

Jen:

It literally, is a season that's right, the tying season, renzetti vices.

Selene of Maine:

Right, regal vices, yep. And we've got stuff that's made like we have bases with our logo on them, that are made in Massachusetts. They're cast we are a Dr slick dealer, I mean. We've got all kinds of things that you know gifty kind of things. We've got shirts that are handmade by a print, uh, from a woodblock print that she's designed for us, that are trout. Yeah, we get like one of a kind.

Jen:

All kinds of stuff, yeah yeah, that's actually a great point. Don't let the seasonal affective disorder thing get you down start tying some flies, that's what fly tying is right.

Selene of Maine:

It gets you through the season to get you season off season.

Selene of Maine:

Right, it is all around and I think that's one thing I love about fly times it keeps you in the mind set of getting ready for that season coming up. Which reminds me is that my husband, eric fromberg, is a really good hobby entomologist and he has a podcast called Angler's Entomology and our flies are set up in the shop like no other shop, which is, all of the flies that we have are cross-referenced to our hatch charts on the wall and we might put them on the website soon, the hatch charts, so the hatch chart for Mayflies. Then we'll have like a code on it We'll say like AB3, which means in little box, ab3 is going to be that fly that you can look like down on. Yeah, so it's very cool that we can look at exactly where the flies are down in the bins.

Jen:

But we can say, okay, what's hatching in June and we've got all the Mayflies that are hatching in June, making sure people give you their email address before you let them have all that great information uh, yeah.

Selene of Maine:

So what we do is anyone that gives us the email address? Is that, about once a month, we send out a fishing report that includes the hatch chart for that month, so it'll tell you exactly what flies to be fishing with that month? Yep, in the state of maine. If not England, it'll cover New England. Yeah, we can't do the whole country. We are not like wizards. Or, yeah, miracle workers, we can't do anything like that.

Jen:

No, I have to say that keep it local. I love that.

Selene of Maine:

That's, that's, that's a, that's a big one that's cool salt water flies and bass flies too yeah, awesome, all right, cool.

Jen:

That sounds good. Can't think of anything else at the moment. I know I, I think we did this. I appreciate your time and all your stories and I'm psyched that I got a chance to meet you. This is like a dream come true to have you captive here so that I could actually talk to you.

Selene of Maine:

Really, yeah. Well, I'm going to be captive here more often. Yeah, because we might collaborate.

Jen:

Come on, let's do some fishing, yeah, we'll get some fishing.

Selene of Maine:

I've got to get out on the water.

Jen:

Finally, I've taken too many stupid half-day casting things where I've never cast anything on the water Never, and you're across from the great Andros Valley.

Selene of Maine:

I know With the Wild River Right with the Wild River?

Jen:

Yeah.

Selene of Maine:

And I watch everyone else catch fish around here and I never have on the Andro, yeah yeah, and another little stream that flows in here. Uh, yes, yeah, yeah.

Jen:

Yeah, I know which one you're talking about. Oh my God, it was phenomenal. It's a good spot. Yeah, bang, bang boom. So if you want to know um Celine's secret spot that we both know about, you're going to have to contact Celine about um coming to the lodge and doing some fly fishing.

Selene of Maine:

Yeah, best days of guiding were here last summer.

Jen:

Cool. Yeah, that's what I love to hear.

Selene of Maine:

Come on back. You know where we are.

Jen:

Thank you Well, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Pleasure Always Huge thanks to my lovely guest, Celine of Maine. I'm looking forward to putting our heads together and coming up with some fishy fun opportunities in the new year for all the noobs like me out there. Head on over to Celine's Fly Shop dot com to check out the huge variety of supplies, equipment, events and experiences Celine has curated for us all. And make sure to follow Celine's Fly Shop on all the socials as well. And speaking of socials, I hope you'll come on over to Guides Gone Wild's Instagram or Facebook accounts this week. I will be fast tracking you to hours of inspiring content you can fill your ears with while you're cooking or traveling this long holiday weekend, Whether you're spending some special time with family or family, I hope you get plenty of fresh air and take advantage of every opportunity to get a little bit wild.