Guides Gone Wild
Guides Gone Wild
Climbing (and Creating Rainbows) with Breast Cancer Survivors: Anyssa Lucena & Dr. Moira Christoudias, GenuineClimbing.org
Genuine Climbing: https://genuineclimbing.org/
Support climbing retreats for breast cancer survivors!: https://genuineclimbing.org/donate/
Join Anyssa & Moira at Climb for a Cause, October 23rd from 3-9pm at GOAT Climbing Gym, Hackensack, NJ
In honor of Breast Cancer Awareness month, today I’m talking to my long-time pod friend Anyssa Lucena of Genuine Climbing, as well as Dr. Moira Christoudias, a breast surgical oncologist with Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care in Paramus NJ.
Anyssa and Moira have joined me today to talk all about their amazing new initiative, Genuine Climbing.org, which will be providing FREE climbing experiences to women affected by breast cancer.
Genuine Climbing's mission is hugely personal for both of these women, as you’ll hear - as Anyssa writes on the website, the lump she felt became the seed for this vision. And now that vision has turned into lots and lots of action - as of early fall 2024, they’ve achieved non-profit status for Genuine Climbing, they’ve got all their ducks in a row, and are now accepting applications for the three amazing climbing retreat events they’ve got confirmed on their calendar already for 2025. I hope you’ll join me in supporting this wonderful organization, the link to donate or volunteer is above - get on it!!
Even if you’re not a climber, you’ll want to listen in today - Dr. Christoudias drops more than a few truth bombs and dispels many myths about breast cancer risk. One in eight (!!) women will get breast cancer in their lifetime. Let’s all educate ourselves on our risks, encourage our friends and family to do the same, and do everything we can to detect it as early as possible!!
A few more links for you:
I was struggling so much that I just needed something good to come from this experience Like this. This sucks so much. There's gotta be a rainbow someplace, and if there's not a rainbow, I'm going to make one, because it can't be my legacy that I just had cancer and went through it. And now I'm just like, yeah, doing laundry, which you know I'm still doing but like I wanted something bigger.
Jen:I needed something more meaningful to come out of this experience. Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild. Welcome to Guides Gone Wild and Breast Cancer Awareness Month. This is your host, jen, bringing you a very special episode.
Jen:Today. I'm talking to my longtime pod friend, anissa Lucena of Genuine Climbing, as well as Dr Maura Christodios, a breast surgical oncologist with Valleymont Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care in Paramus, new Jersey. Even if you're many states away from New Jersey, like I am right now, you will want to listen in. Today, dr Christodios drops more than a few truth bombs and dispels many myths about breast cancer risk. One in eight women will get breast cancer in their lifetime. Let's all educate ourselves on our risks, encourage our friends and family to do the same and do everything we can to detect it as early as possible. Okay, all that being said, a somewhat overdue trigger warning If today's topic hits a little too close to home for you right now. Please take a pass. While well-intentioned, designating October as Breast Cancer Awareness Month can turn up a lot of trauma for some who've been impacted by this horrible disease. Take care of you. But now the main reason Anissa and Maura have joined me today is to talk about their amazing new initiative, genuineclimbingorg, which will be providing free climbing experiences to women affected by breast cancer. The mission is hugely personal for both of these women. As you'll hear, as Anissa writes on her Genuine Climbing website, the lump she felt was actually the seed for this vision, and now vision has turned into lots and lots of action. As of early fall 2024, they've achieved nonprofit status for genuine climbing. They've got all their ducks in a row and are now accepting applications for the three amazing climbing retreat events they've got confirmed on their calendar already for 2025.
Jen:I hope you'll join me in supporting this wonderful organization. The link to donate or volunteer is right at the top of your show notes. Get on it. And if you're listening to this within a few weeks of publication and you live anywhere near Hackensack, new Jersey, I encourage you to join Anissa and Dr Mora at their Climbing for a Cause event on Wednesday, october 23rd 2024, from 3 to 9 pm at the Goat Climbing Gym that's at 77 River Street in Hackensack. Whether you're new to climbing or have tons of experience, this event is for you. There'll be games, prizes, contests, clinics, swag all the awesome things for all ages. And the best part the proceeds from the raffle and clinics will support Genuine Climbing's mission to provide life-affirming climbing experiences to women impacted by breast cancer. I've dropped this link to get more information at the top of your show notes. Hope you are able to support Genuine Climbing, whether in person or via donation on their site.
Jen:All right, if you're still with me, it is high time to hear from two powerhouse women who know way more about all of this than I do.
Jen:Here's my conversation with Anissa Lucena and Maura Christudias.
Jen:All right, today I am super duper excited to be welcoming, welcoming back Anissa Lucena, genuine Climbing, to the podcast. We've had a couple previous conversations that have been in two completely different ends of the spectrum and today we're going to like make it a big triangle of jubilance and talk all about this exciting thing that she's got going on with her friend, maura Christudias, who is a physician, a breast surgical oncologist, who works for Valley Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care in New Jersey, new York, new Jersey, paramus, new Jersey, right, paramus, that's right, and yeah, I'm just going to leave it at that. So, maura, tell us just a little bit about yourself quickly, because I know I'm going to. I'll reference back to my previous conversations with Anissa, but we're going to get into her a little bit too, don't you worry. Um, I'd love to hear a little bit about kind of how you got into this specialty. And then also, um, you know how you guys, you gals, met each other at one point or another you know how you guys, you gals, met each other at one point or another.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Sure, so you know I have a general surgery training background and one thing I love with surgery is that we're able to fix a problem. Okay, we go in, we can truly say that we're curing patients, that we're solving this problem, without waiting for years to pass, you know, with medical treatment. But the one thing I really didn't like about surgery is that you fix this problem and then that's it. There's no relationship, there's no talking really with the patients, getting to know them, and that was something that was really missing. And so breast surgery really combined both of these elements to me. So I was able to fix a problem and then also really cultivate this relationship and guide women through the diagnosis, through the treatment, and that is really what was the most fulfilling for me. So went through general surgery training, completed a breast surgical oncology fellowship and then entered practice, and so now my career is really focused on the treatment of benign and malignant disease of the breast. Now, you know, we deal with the immediate treatment. We talk about following women in surveillance, but once they're done, quote unquote with with surgery, with radiation, with chemotherapy, and they're just on these medications. You know it's. We like to think that it's quote unquote past them, but it's not. You know, when I see women at that one year visit, they have post traumatic stress. I mean, from everything that they went through, their families say, well, this is all behind you, but but it's not really. I mean there's often a lot of tears that are shed during that time and they need, you know number one a sense of community. They need to have people that understand kind of where they've been and where they're at, and a lot of women do that. And then, number two we really wanted to get women more active, because what we know is that women who do resistance activity, weight-bearing activity, helps maintain their bone density and when they're on these medications they can really affect that, they can decrease it. And then the other beneficial effect of physical activities it actually can help decrease recurrence as well. So it's good for their physical body, it's good for their mental state.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :And so I had started climbing about three years ago and I was visiting my sister who lives in Colorado and they invited me to a local climbing gym. Say, hey, this gym just opened. Do you want to join us? So I was like, sure. Okay, I thought it was something for kids, so I went. I had such an amazing time that as soon as I came back home I immediately went to our local gym and signed up for a ballet class, and that was it. And then, right after that, I was climbing and a woman mentioned Anissa's class to me, and so then I took her class and shortly I think it was maybe the second or third class, somewhere in that range she had sent an email. She's very active, you know, in social media and had mentioned her diagnosis, and so I was, you know, kind of struggled. What, what do I say here? You know, I don't want to kind of cross boundaries, you know you met her right at that time I met her right
Jen:at that time she was in my.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:She was in my climbing class and I had no idea that she was a surgeon at all, like she was just a person in my class and so, yeah, when I got diagnosed, I made this big like public Facebook posts and everything and I was like I have breast cancer.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Let's see what this is about, oh my gosh. And then and then, and then Maura sent me an email and it just said very simply like I'm a specialist, if you have questions, let me know. And I was so like clouded in my in my own like world of like what the heck is going on, that I didn't even know what that meant. And so when I saw her in class again, I was like what do you mean? You're a specialist? Like I was like what does that even mean? Like you, like you have boobs, like what? And she's like no, she's like no, I'm a surgeon. I'm like, oh, you're like legit a specialist, all right, all right, that's interesting.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:So it was. You know, I'm a big fan of the universe showing up when you need it, and so it was just kind of like good karma that she happened to be in my class the same time that this came up. She, that she happened to be in my class the same time that that this came up. And so I was actually through treatment with a different, a different doctor, but was seeing her every week in class and kind of pulling her aside and asking questions and stuff like that, and then eventually transferred and and sees, you know, other doctors in her practice for for my treatment.
Jen:So yeah, I was going to. I was going to ask, yeah, laura, yeah, I was gonna. I was gonna ask yeah More. I know, you know, one of the things that I think we talked about the second time, anissa was the whole. You know just the way you went into the mindset that you had at the beginning and then even during, being like I'm gonna get the you know, and then like then it started kicking your ass later on and just exactly what Maura said before of like everyone's, like you're, you're done, you're fine, it's over, and you're like I'm a complete disaster. I don't even know where to go from here. So I can only imagine how valuable that relationship must have been, in that you know I was going to ask you more if you got a second fellowship in like you know psychiatry, psychology, because I feel like in your line of work you really almost need that.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Yeah, yeah, no, it's. We don't have official training, there's. No, no, it would be great to have a fellow, because I actually say that that's my second specialty, that I am. My second job is as as really a therapist and kind of helping women negotiate and navigate all these feelings that they're having, and we often do refer them to therapists. But there's a lot of these conversations that we have just in, you know, on that annual basis. It is. It's become my second specialty.
Jen:Yeah, can imagine so. So you two are, you know, on the crags together and have this weird intersecting venn diagram, not exactly, but kind of you know just in what's what your lived experiences are. So how, how did this um friendship continue? And then tell me a little bit about what is the the new favorite child that you're birthing out of your relationship, hopefully.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:I don't know how. I don't actually remember the first time it came up, but it kind of came up somewhat mutually. I don't remember who brought it up first, but we kind of had this thought like wouldn't it be cool to start a nonprofit that takes women affected by cancer rock climbing? And I don't know if I mentioned it first or Maura kind of mentioned it, but both of us kind of had this like simultaneously said this thing and we were both like, yes, that would be so cool. And so I first had the idea last year actually kind of just like sat in my head.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:You know more for me on a personal note, I I was struggling so much that I just needed something good to come from this experience. Like here I am, I'm getting all choked up again, but like it was really like this this sucks so much. There's got to be a rainbow, like, and if there's not a rainbow, I'm going to make one, because it can't be my legacy that I just had cancer and went through it and now I'm just like, yeah, doing laundry which you know I'm still doing but like I wanted something bigger, I needed something more meaningful to come out of this experience, and so I had the idea. We had the idea and we kind of just like every once in a while we'll kind of like bring it up, but like never more on my point, never like having the effort to kind of go through with it and and make it happen. I was just kind of like, yeah, what a great idea, but, but, but nothing, you know, and it just kind of sat there for a while.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Bounced around, just have this conversation. Yeah, that would be so neat we could do this.
Jen:Well, you did stand up an event last October, because I think that's when I talked to. You was in the lead up to that and announced it. And you had. You know, I remember and you still have the best to this date the best like self made boob graphics I've ever seen. Love that freaking tile and I'm so glad you used it again. But were you thinking at that time that that was going to become a bigger thing, or was it just like let's just do this? And then that became like it snowballed from there.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:So we yes, we helped this event last year at go climbing gym in Hackensack. We called it Climbing for a Cause and it was a breast cancer awareness event at the climbing gym and Maura and I both attended and it was a great success. It was super good and we took all the money that we raised and we donated it to other cancer-related organizations that we had selected based on their mission and what we felt kind of aligned with. But at that point we were both like would this be cool if we could do this and just raise the money for ourselves and take people climbing? So again, like the discussions were going like every time we would get together, we'd be like, wouldn't that be cool if we just did this thing? And and again, it just kind of it just kind of sat there, but it was a really great event. And uh, and then, little by little, the voice started getting a little bit stronger.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:And then there were some other things that happened. I, um, I had connected with a woman on Facebook that I had taken out climbing years ago and she was really suffering with really bad endometriosis so not cancer, but still like a a woman related disease and she was really struggling and feeling similar things that I felt during my journey, with feeling disconnected from my body, kind of. You know, living in the past where, like remember, when I used to be able to do this and stuff like that, and so at one point she was just kind of having a bad day and I just messaged her and I'm like let's just go climbing, I'm not going to charge you. Like this isn't a guided thing, like let's just go, let's just go climb together and just see what happens, you know. And so we went out and she was a little nervous and everything. And we went out and she did this climb. That was actually pretty tough and she got to the top and she just started like crying, like she just had this huge release from it. And I was just at the top of the cliff and she just kind of looked at me and I didn't even have to say anything. I was just like I get it. And she, she was kind of talking about how this disease had taken away so much from her and how happy she was to see a glimmer of hope and and it really like moved me so much and I was like I need to do more of this, like that that was that was part of the start is like I need to do this again because I saw what an impact it made.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:And then the other big thing is you know, I have three kids, three teenagers. None of them think that anything I do is cool, right, I, I show them like epic climbing pictures and they're like whatever. You know, they they're just like yeah, whatever, they don't think anything's cool. But then I mentioned it to my daughter, who's 19. And I was like I think I'm going to start this non-for-profit. And she actually was like wow, that's really cool.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:And then it really hit me because I was like I could actually like make a real impact on people and also model this for my daughter and show her what it means to like contribute in a real meaningful way. And also it gave me kind of like what Maura was saying. I was kind of having that PTSD, feeling kind of low that the immediacy of the treatment was over. But just like Maura was saying, like people like it's over right and you all, you're just like. But just like Maura was saying, like people are like it's over Right and you all, you're just like. I don't know, I'm still messed up in my head. So this gave me a sense of purpose that I really haven't felt in a long time and I feel like I can make an impact and like leave a real legacy with this.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :So then she finally bit the bullet and said I'm doing it. She goes, I'm starting this and I said can I be on your board please?
Jen:And that was the start. That was it. And Anissa said you have to be a lead climber first.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :And then, exactly, I had to step my game up a little bit. And so I mean, so that's what I find so incredible about climbing is just how it is like mental therapy for me. I have, if I have a really stressful day at work, a bad day, just so many things on my mind. It really does just help focus me. It takes me away from all of that and then I leave just feeling new. It takes me away from all of that and then I leave just feeling new and if I'm feeling that you know what that can do for our patients, and so so yeah, past my lead test for indoor, like a month prior, and so we were there and did the classes and she had me do, was there for my first lead climb, and so super exciting, beyond just I mean, I don't think I've ever smiled bigger. Sorry, kids.
Jen:I've ever smiled bigger. Sorry, kids. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. No, I think I can totally see that because I mean you know, to the same, in the same way, that when you're going through the treatment, you know there's just so much heaviness, it's just on you all the time. I would imagine, as somebody who's treating people going through this would be the same level of just intense heaviness. All the time I would think, and to be able to get out of yourself because you can't, you know, especially climbing outside, I would think, because you never.
Jen:You're doing something different all the time. It's not as predictable as the indoor climbing and just like you have to, you have to be focused on what it is you're doing and I know you know similar to what you ladies are playing together now. I talked years ago to a woman involved with Casting for Recovery, which is a group that takes fly fish, breast cancer survivors and people in treatment out fly fishing and they said that's the whole thing is like fly a cast. A fly fishing cast is something that you have to just be in the moment and be focusing on and, like you can't, you have to just let everything else go and get zen about what it is you're doing and that it's just this simple movement that creates so much, such a beautiful feeling, you know, and it is such something that you know these people want to share with folks who are going through such heaviness. So, with that being said, tell me a little bit about what it is you are building. It's going to be called Genuine Climbing the not-for-profit as well. Well, genuine.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Climbing. We kind of kept the name because I already kind of work with so many women and everything, and so our model is very similar to Casting with Recovery. Actually, we had a great phone call with one of their team members and kind of pick their brains about it. But the model is that it's for any woman who is any stage of cancer, either currently in treatment or had it 30 years ago, it really doesn't matter and we're having weekend retreats up in the gunks in the New York state, you know, up upstate New York, and it's completely paid for, it's completely free for the participants. All they need to do is show up and everything is paid for. And the retreats are going to run from like Thursday afternoon to Sunday afternoon, with two days of climbing and then also, you know, a little bit of acupuncture, a little bit of massage, a little bit of just like wellness thing. And what I'm really looking to, or what we're really looking to create there is just not just a safe space to challenge yourself and try something new, but just to be in a place that you just feel like taking care of and and like nurtured, like you don't have to think about anything, you don't have to like worry, like everything's going to be taken care of and and giving these women a chance just to kind of exhale and be where they want. And so the climbing is almost kind of secondary in an odd way, although, you know, obviously that's a huge part of my life as well. But, you know, women could come and just be a part of the group. They could decide that they don't want to climb, and that's fine. They could learn how to belay, and that's fine, or they could, you know, go for it in any ways.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:But we're holding it at this really gorgeous retreat center that has beautiful views of the cliff and chickens and a pond and hammocks and all this stuff, and so it's just a really, really serene place and, you know, hopefully a great environment to to really decompress, and it's all led by volunteers that are coming up for the weekend to facilitate including, you know, medical facilitators as well as just volunteers, and then climbing guides women climbing guides that I've worked with in the past that are also really psyched about the mission. So it's really excited when, when we kind of announced this, how many people were like I want to be a part of this, which was just so validating to like everyone was like what can I do to help? What can I do to help? Which was so great. So we already actually have three retreats on the calendar for next year.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:We have a new website, genuineclimbingorg, yeah, and so, yeah, people, people now could go ahead and just apply to the retreats we're going to have it for right now 10 women per weekend and we just select them randomly. So, yeah, you know, and then, of course, later on there's you know, a med appearance to make sure that your doctor kind of thinks it's it's good for you to be doing, you know, going out there and stuff. But yeah, so so all the lodgings paid for, all the meals are paid for, all the climbing gears paid for, all of this paid for from donations that we're getting, and you know we're working with, you know, companies to get sponsorship and all that kind of stuff yeah, that's awesome, and I know you're doing a fundraiser online as well, um which I'll yes, so we so we have.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Yeah, if you go into our website, there's a link. Anybody could donate at any time.
Jen:Hint or is kicking your butt just saying um on the fundraising team?
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:totally yeah I know, and then also like if people want to get involved, involved in volunteering, I mean there's there's so much work involved doing this. I'm loving it, but it's a lot and so we're we're happy to have help from from anybody and anywhere. There's always, you know, phone calls and emails and relationships we're trying to build to help kind of fund this in a really large way. You know, our, our goal is eventually to make this kind of like a national wide program everywhere. You know I I think it's really going to take off. I'm I'm super excited about it. I can't even sleep at night because all I do is think about it. But our big, our big event right now is the breast cancer awareness event that we're having at Go Climbing Gym in Hackensack. So people should definitely come out for that. If you're local, we have a lot of really great, like super great raffle prizes that people have been again so generously donating. It's been really wonderful.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:And then we have clinics and popcorn and all the good stuff.
Jen:Did you extend it this year no longer, because last year I was like I'm like I don't know if you're going to get. I think people are going to show up and you're not going to have enough time to do all these things.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Last year it was, I think, two or three hours. It was short and I think about 150 people came. This year it's from three to nine o'clock, so a much bigger band. We have some other guides that have volunteered their time to come out and teach clinics as well, so specific climbing stuff. And then people have volunteered to like teach brand new people. So if you've never even climbed before and just kind of want to see what it is, you could come climb. We'll have a Blair, we'll have an instructor to kind of teach you, teach you the ropes and everything. So it's it's. We're really excited for the event and then obviously it ties in with the whole breast cancer awareness month in October and right, cause it's Wednesday, october 23rd, right, okay.
Jen:And then at the goat climbing gym. And then is there a separate spot that they should go to sign up for that, or it's on your genuine climbing website? I should have looked at this at a time?
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Yeah, no, so to attend, you just show up and attend. There are some specific clinics that are being taught and if somebody wants to sign up for those specific clinics that are going on the day, that's genuineclimbingcom. I know I have the com and the org, but, yeah, either website will kind of direct you to the site, but otherwise you could just just come and show up and have a good time. So there's no, there's no preregistration required.
Jen:Yeah, and then for 2025, cause I assume that the the kickoff of the genuineclim climbingorg retreats is next year, is it? Is it a certain time of year you're doing it, or are you just kind of like you've got yeah, so we have we have this the the weekend schedule.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:There's one at the end of May, there's one in August, mid August and there's one in the beginning of October. So the specific dates are already on genuineclimbingorg, and anybody who, any woman who has any experience with cancer, they can go on right now and apply for the program. There's a we usually like pull a deadline two months before the retreat and that's when we'll select the 10 participants and let them know and then it's yeah, then it's game on. So, yeah, programming is already set for next year. It's super exciting, that's so so awesome, so awesome.
Jen:Well, let's take advantage of the fact that we have Dr Christudias with us. Today. It is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. What does that mean to you? What should women be aware of? And I mean, obviously we go. They tell you to check your breasts, which I would imagine most people don't really, if they're anything like me. And then also, I just went and finally, I think that my first post COVID mammogram the other day, because I felt really bad that I hadn't gone and I was like this is really bad. So, but other than that, other than being more vigilant than I am about my breast health, what should people be thinking about?
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Well, first. So I think a common misconception with breast cancer is that if there's no one in your family that has had breast cancer, if there's no family history, that you're really at low risk. And so the biggest risk factor for breast cancer is age. Okay, only 15 is actually genetic, all right. And so this is why it's so important for women, regardless of family history, to do their breast self-examinations and to get annual mammograms. Okay, so, at a minimum. Um, we're recommending women undergo annual mammograms starting at 40. All right, and then you continue them, and so the American Society of Breast Surgeons, the Society of Breast Imaging, all these different societies. We have slightly different recommendations, but overall screening should really continue based on life expectancy, so based on how women are doing with their health, not at one specific eight cutoff. And so a lot of women think, okay, I'm 70, you know I don't really need one anymore. You know I've kind of passed that hump, but that's not true, because the biggest incidents, the decade where you're at greatest incidents of developing breast cancer, is 70 to 79. So biggest thing I want to impart is please get your annual screening. Okay, so, minimum of mammogram, ultrasound. Talk with your gynecologist about whether you would benefit from increased screening. All right, these are based on women who are at higher risk, and that's a conversation. There are different models that we use, you know, to get out there and determine the level of risk and then look at family history and see if you meet criteria for genetic testing. Because that also, that those women who do fall in that specific category, we are going to treat very differently. We are going to recommend supplemental imaging, we talk about risk reduction measures, and so that's the biggest thing I try to impart in October. Now, after that, you know there's a lot of myths and fallacies that I try to kind of set straight.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :With respect to breast cancer, you know some things that women think cause breast cancer aluminum and deodorant Nope, it doesn't. Okay, feel free to use whatever you'd like. You want to use just deodorant versus antiperspirant? That's fine. Okay, but it's safe to use either. Okay, you can eat soy. Okay, and a mommy tofu in your diet. That is not going to impact a breast cancer risk.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :And even when we talk about hormones, we used to think hormones were such a no-no. Ok, because of the Women's Health Initiative, it looked at this estrogen and progesterone in women. But as we've really gone through the data and looked at that further, we find that the recommendations that women not take over any hormones because of this association with increased risk was a little inflated. And so you know a lot of these things. We used to just make these rash recommendations on need to be more conversations.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Now, okay, we talk about individual, how they're feeling, how things are impacting their life. You know we started talking about, you know, menopause symptoms in the very beginning. I mean it's no joke, I mean these are significant. You know I will tell you brand new menopausal. Here it's, you know, in the thick and I understand you know, I understand that the insomnia, the hot flashes, anxiety increases, you know, significantly, and so some women are going to see a benefit with having hormones and that's not going to significantly increase her risk. So October for me is about dispelling myths and just trying to provide education to women and men.
Jen:Yeah, I really appreciate that Because I do feel, like you know, as I started, kind of getting more impacted by menopause or perimenopause. I suppose it is technically, you know, doing trying to do the research and kind of educate yourself on stuff and what you should and shouldn't do, and there's been all these assumptions made based on like four data points that are actually legitimate, and then the rest of it's all like stuff that's been done on men or whatever, or animals or something, and they're like oh well, this you know. And so now we're finally kind of trying to make that right, but in the meantime there's the rest. Of us are all kind of trying to figure out what the hell do I do? Can I eat soy? Should I not eat soy? You know all that stuff.
Jen:So I do really appreciate from your perspective, which is far more educated than I will ever be, on anything is like here's the real stuff to think about and worry about and not worry about. I guess that's awesome. Anissa, what do you have to say about this? What's important for you in this month?
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Yeah, I mean, I guess I guess, like everyone else, I, I just thought I eat well, I exercise, I was healthy. It was, you know, of course, never on my radar to even consider that I would get breast cancer. And I did do genetic testing and there's nothing in my family as well. So you know the kind of idea that, yeah, it can show up for anybody. I think the stats are what one in eight women now are affected by breast cancer.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Every woman is a 13% chance.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Yeah, so, and I wasn't, like you, wasn't doing self-examination, but I did have a clean mammogram just eight months before I felt the lump.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:And I felt the lump just because I was kind of just sitting in like scratching my neck and then scratching my chest, and I felt it right away. It was pretty obvious. So I know it can be really scary for people to go get mammograms or do the self-testing, because that whole ignorance is bliss and we want to believe that it won't happen to us because we eat well and we run and we do whatever we do. So I know that it's scary to have to do that, but it's so important because you know, if you don't it could be so much worse. So if you're on the fence about doing it, you know, I know, just as anyone else, to have to call and schedule a mammogram and and then you know, take a day off of work and drive, all of that is a huge, huge nuisance and we'd all just rather not do all the stuff. But it is super important and it it. You know it happens, it happens everywhere.
Jen:So yeah, absolutely. I think I was saying in the emails that we had leading up to this. I mean it has all of a sudden and mine was just cause like my insurance changed. I didn't have a primary care, like it was just like, well, you know that whole thing where I like your insurance changes. You make sure all your loved ones are taken care of. But you're like, oh well, my physician isn't on the plan, but that's fine, everybody else's specialist is, so I'm just going to run with it.
Jen:I just took me, like frickin, three years to get my head out of my butt and go for it. But but, but it has been like whack-a-mole in my life. Like, all of a sudden, you know I'm in my mid fifties, it's just like everywhere I fricking turned like my sister-in-law gets diagnosed, everyone's getting diagnosed out of left field, and you're just like you know, when you're in your twenties you can lull yourself into thinking like, well, it says it's one in 10 or one fifties. It's like holy shit, it's everywhere and it's just awful. So I appreciate all of this. This is like I mean, I don't really appreciate it. I think it sucks and I wish it would just not happen. But I appreciate that the two of you are just being like, hey, let's be real about this, because it's, it's a thing.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Yeah, it is a thing and the earlier we find it, we can treat it. Okay, so women, when we catch breast cancer early, women go through, yes, absolutely a lot, but it's a lot less than when it's advanced. Okay, and so women are going to live long lives, healthy lives. Just let us find it, you know, get the imaging, let's just get the answer and then you can move on.
Jen:Yeah, it's like your third mic drop of this whole conversation, maura, thank you. They're just coming left, right and center. I wish I could come and see you all in person and hear you on October 23rd. So so, yeah, I, this is awesome. I'm excited about this. What's is there any like? I know?
Jen:On the fundraiser, I think the goal, the initial goal, is like $100,000 to raise to, and you think that that's a good spot for you to be able to provide these three and get yourself a little bit of momentum going for the future. So I would highly encourage anyone to check in to the link that I'll drop in the show notes and just decide whether you want to bolster Anissa's chances of being the highest fundraiser or just get on the mora train, like everybody else seems to be doing. And either way, you can leave a really nice note. And there's a new person I just went on before this and Anissa's selling some pretty kick-ass mugs on. I'll let you go to her Instagram to check that out Genuine climbing. I'm hoping one is on its way to me now. And what else? What did I? What have I missed? What else should we cover while I have you guys on the phone?
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:No, I mean, I guess I'm just you know, going back to the climbing for a bit, since you know I've been climbing consistently for 15 years now in a climbing guide. I mean I guess I'm just, you know, going back to the climbing for a bit, since you know I've been climbing consistently for 15 years now in a climbing guide. I mean it just never ceases to amaze me how healing the activity is and how it just gives a light of hope and glimmer and life in any case, and that's always been my story, even before the cancer, because you know I found climbing during a divorce and I found climbing during going through all these other things. So it was just kind of like another circle, like okay, well, climbing is going to be there for me when I come out of this and it's going to teach me a lesson about something and and it and it always has. So like for me it kind of just goes back to the rope.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:You know, like that's I always have this story, like I want to go up to people and drop a rope in front of them and just be like, welcome to the rest of your life. Like this is it, this is all you'll need, you know, and it's really powerful. So I'm really excited to see how it's going to affect these women. I'm really excited to see how it's going to affect these women. I'm really excited. I have no doubt at all that it's going to be a major turning point in their life, even if they never climb again. But the experience itself is going to say something and I'm really excited to hear the stories that come out of this.
Jen:Yeah, I agree, and so, and I assume that your choice to do these as outdoor climbing retreats was deliberate, or was it not? I mean, obviously you could go to a gym somewhere and that would be easy, and you get a room in Hackensack and everybody can go.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Like, tell me about that decision and you know, connecting with the earth, connecting with the rock in a in a really meaningful way, and and again to have it over a four day period. So you can really kind of let your guard down. And you know cause usually when the when you climb for the first time, you're just so nervous and anxious you almost like can't enjoy it, like you're just. You know you kind of want to, you don't want to look bad, you don't want to embarrass yourself, you want to do well, like there's all this kind of anxiety. So again, the weekend is structured to kind of right from the get-go to relax everybody and make them feel good, and then having the two days of climbing. So the first day you could kind of get out all the heebie-jeebies and then the second day you could be like okay, like now, now I could really take my time with it.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Just being in nature is healing. It is You're, you're, you're breathing in. You know that that great air there's, the sunshine, I mean it does. It changes your mood, it changes your mental state, how you're feeling about things. And so, even apart from actually climbing on the wall, just being outside and really experiencing the environment, that's huge.
Jen:Yeah, I would imagine to the way that it is structured over a few days. I mean the community that would come out, that will come out of this, and the relationships and the connections, just because you know I, you know there are support groups in this and that but like to be able to share two really pivotal experiences with other people. You know both the cancer journey that they're either going through or have gone through that really nobody else can understand the way that I would imagine somebody else who has gone through this can, and then also to have tested yourself maybe in a new way and come out of that on the other side and you have that as a shared experience too. I just think that's going to be so amazing to you know, even if these people then all spray out and go back to their various places, like I would imagine, there'll be a lot of long-term connections that are, that are started just because of what you created, which is pretty amazing.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Now we'll have to come back on your podcast in a year with some of the participants from the retreats and they could tell you their stories themselves.
Jen:Dude, I'm coming in person and I'll like volunteer I'll be, like I can't belay, I can't climb, but I can cheer.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:I'll be, at the top.
Jen:I'll be like hey how you doing. I'll stick a microphone in their face. I'm there. Are you kidding me? I haven't been to the Gonks before, so that's my excuse.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :I got a whole year to plan and make time for it.
Jen:So there you go. No, I think that'll be, that'll be amazing. I'm looking forward to, uh, to just watching this whole thing blow up, because it will, because you know it's a void that is not filled with anywhere near as much support and love and, and you know, kind of things that aren't negative right now. So I think it's going to be super important, and you're going to have to come up with a better way to do it than just like picking numbers out of a hat, though, cause I think you're going to get a little bit overwhelmed with demand.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Just saying I know, I know, but it's good we're, we're going to grow and it's going to be great.
Jen:Yep. Well, in the 2025, people will come back in 2026 and they'll be the ones that are like leading the whole thing, and you know they're going to be like I'm taking this to Milwaukee, are you kidding me? I'm bringing it back to all my friends and I'm going to run one over there Exactly. Yeah, it gets contagious right, it spreads like a spreads like a spider web. That's the goal. Yeah, spreads like goddamn cancer does if you don't get to get it get to it early.
Jen:So at that, let's turn this shit around, turn that train around right, oh yeah, yay, all right. No, I think that's great. This is going to be amazing.
Jen:I thank you both so much for doing this because I I know it's a lot of work and I and your work is really just beginning now, but to take this extra step to set yourself up administratively and legally and every in every other way, to make this into something that can live beyond us all, is just amazing. It is an amazing legacy and I'm glad your daughter's proud of you, because she fricking should be Yep.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:Thanks.
Jen:Thank you, and I'm super duper looking forward to finally meeting you both in person. If it's not a Romney, because you keep not calling me when you go there, it'll have to be at the Garks.
Anyssa Lucena, Genuine Climbing:For sure, all right, all right, sweet. Thank you so much, jen. It's so great talking to you, thank you, thank you, it's so.
Jen:I always enjoy, I always enjoy seeing your face over Zoom, anissa, and thank you for making the time and, maura, thank you for all that you're doing to kind of prop this up and, you know, bring another whole level of legitimacy to what's going on, because that's good. I love it. You can keep sharing mic drop moments with all of us and we'll keep doing the right thing.
Dr. Moira Christoudias, Valley-Mount Sinai Comprehensive Cancer Care :Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you both.
Jen:Huge thanks to today's guests, anissa and Maura. We are so excited to watch you both shepherd genuine climbing retreats into beautiful climbing destinations across the country. I hope anyone who's listening and is in that 13% of women who is or has had to face breast cancer I hope you'll apply for one of these coveted genuine climbing retreat dates. You deserve it. I'm crossing my fingers and toes that your name gets drawn Head on over to genuineclimbingorg to get more information. Donate to this fantastic organization or apply for a spot at one of the retreat weekends, and I hope that at least a few of you can make it to Goat Climbing Gym in Hackensack in a few weeks to get a little or maybe a lot wild on the wall.