Guides Gone Wild

Everything's Better on Bikes: Nicole Freedman, New England Mountain Bike Association and Former Olympian

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The Summer Olympics in Paris kick off in mere hours, so how appropriate that today I’m going deep with the first Guides Gone Wild former Olympian, Nicole Freedman, now the Executive Director of NEMBA, the New England Mountain Bike Association.

As you'll hear, Nicole’s Team USA experience is impressive, but even more amazing to me are the decades of devotion she’s applied to making bikes, and bike transportation, a bigger part of our everyday lives.

Nicole was the city of Boston’s first-ever 'Bike Czar'; during her tenure, she helped transform Boston from the three-times designated 'worst cycling city in the country' (according Bicycling Magazine), into a national leader in cycling accessibility and safety.

After some additional stints leading both urban and rural active transportation initiatives, in 2022, Nicole took the helm of NEMBA - only the third Executive Director in that  organization’s 35 year history. NEMBA is a community of mountain bikers committed to creating epic riding experiences, preserving open space, and guiding the future of mountain biking in New England through its 35 chapters across all six New England states.

It’s almost like we’re e-biking our way through this conversation, we cover so much ground! From metro-west to Stanford to Sydney to Seattle, with multiple boomerangs back to the Boston area, all with the goal of making bikes the new normal for commuters, conservationists, and casual riders alike (no hot dog costume required!!)

Links from our conversation (not chain, the other kind!):

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

And there was a point when I was retiring from racing and I'm like what do I do? I'm now, you know, 33. I really haven't worked full time at any job. I've had, you know, pretty low level jobs, and you know I used to joke. I looked through the want ad and the only things I felt like I was qualified to do would say costume provided, you know. And I had this image of myself wearing a little hot dog costume on the side of the road.

Jen:

Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild.

Jen:

Welcome to Guides Gone Wild. This is Jen, and while I've been a bit delayed in getting this interview into your ears, the timing turns out to be amazing because we are just hours away from the kickoff of the Summer Olympics in Paris, and today I am going deep with, I think, the first Guides Gone Wild former Olympian, nicole Friedman, who these days is also the executive director of NEMBA, the New England Mountain Bike Association. I have to say Nicole's Team USA experience is impressive, but even more amazing to me is the decades of devotion she's applied to making bikes and bike transportation a bigger part of our everyday lives. She was the city of Boston's first ever bike czar and, during her tenure, helped transform Boston from the three times designated worst cycling city in the country, according to Bicycling Magazine, to a recognized leader in cycling accessibility and safety. To a recognized leader in cycling accessibility and safety. After some additional stints leading both urban and rural active transportation initiatives, in 2022, nicole took the helm of NEMBA, aka the New England Mountain Bike Association, as only the third executive director in that organization's 35-year history.

Jen:

Nemba is a community of mountain bikers committed to creating epic riding experiences, preserving open space and guiding the future of mountain biking in New England through its 35 chapters across all six New England states. It's almost like we're e-biking our way through this conversation. We cover so much ground, from Metro West to Stanford, to Sydney, to Seattle, with multiple boomerangs back to the Boston area, all with the goal of making bikes the new normal for commuters, conservationists and casual riders alike. I absolutely love talking to Gen Xers who've been maneuvering along their own life experience path so close to me geographically, because it's fascinating for me to realize all the ways things unfold so so differently for all of us. And dang, this one is super juicy when it comes to the impact you can have when you are passionate about something. So let's get right into it. Hear what I did there With my new friend, nicole Friedman of NEMBA. Yeah, so we can just jump right in. Nicole freeman of nemba. Executive director of nemba for the last couple years. Um right, did you join in 2022?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I? It's a very good question pre-covid. No, no, I joined after covid, after things are back. I think it was uh late fall 2023 or 2022.

Jen:

Okay, all right, awesome, I'm like I can't believe that in all my research I didn't write that down. So but anyway, welcome to Guides Gone Wild this morning. So good to talk to you again. You too. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, I'm psyched. So you, I believe you might be the first Olympian I've talked to. So that's where I want to start this whole conversation, because you, long before you, got really stoked on getting everybody on bikes in every possible scenario, you got on a bike and actually went to the Sydney Olympics, which is pretty freaking crazy and awesome to consider, because 2000, you know, that was a, that was a different, especially for women on bikes. So are we, can we can we roll it back real quick. And just you, you are also from Massachusetts originally and but then wound up kind of ping-ponging cross country several times. So I want to understand, you know maybe early on, what got you interested in bikes? And then, how the heck did you wind up on the US cycling team? Because that's a big jump.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Well, I often joke that I got into bikes in high school because all my friends got nice cars to take to school and I got able to use my dad's 1970 Chevy Nova that was like a hundred dollars at the time. But that is not actually true, although I did bike to school. Yeah, I um had transferred to a division one school to run and I was just not good enough. So I joined the team and I was fine but not competitive at all. And then I joined the the team and I was fine but not competitive at all. And then I joined the cycling team and I was like I am done with competitive sports and I was just going to ride with the team and enjoy it. And I did the first race and I was hooked.

Jen:

So that's how I started. So when you say race, because I know there's several different kind of, I know almost nothing about like competitive, competitive cycling, but I know enough to know that there's like several different events. So what was kind of, what did you get in on and what was your specialty that you kind of rode toward the US team on?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, so I was a road racer. I like to say I did all of the same events and types of events that Lance Armstrong did. He was just a lot faster for a lot of reasons.

Jen:

And without all of the mind, mind and body altering substances.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Exactly so, yeah, so there's the road races, which are, you know, 60, 100 miles. You go over hills, flats, whatever it is. That's what you do Lance Armstrong do most. And then there's another format, called a criterium. That we did a lot, which was a little bit more of my specialty, but you'd have a one mile loop or so in a downtown area with lots of turns, lots of spectators, and you are going fast around those turns and around that loop and you do it for 30 miles worth maybe. And then the time trails which you'd see in the Tour de France, when it's just one person on the road at a time.

Jen:

Yeah, that's insane. So the criterium I'm fascinated by this, like that's what I mean. A lot of these, you see the epic wipeouts, but like, were you ever part of some sort of epic wipeout? Like it always seems like fast clusters of bike people, like one wrong move and it's going to just be a complete like shit show. And then there's spectators that are right there, like, did that ever? Does that ever happen like in real life, or is that only at the high levels?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

It does and it's awful. I mean, you know and it's, and it's predictable. You know, if you had a race and you know a lot of these criterium races well people would be crashing in a road race or a criterium. But in a criterium, if they've got six categories going, you'd usually see an ambulance at least one time. But yes, I did have two concussions and bad crashes. The first was actually in college, my senior year, and it was that I was in the running.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

It was me and this other woman, karen Steiner, that were, you know, in the standings for conference champion and it was coming down to this race and I flip over a curve and land on my head and you can get back in a criterium. You just wait a lap and you get back in. So I get back in and I look at my teammates. I'm like where am I? And they're like get out of the race. And I said, well, no, just where am I? Is it Santa Rosa? They're like, no, get out of the race. I had no idea where I was or what I was doing. I'm like, but.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I got to beat Karen Steiner. Anyway, the coach pulled me out of the race. Karen won the conference. Good for her. She was a great racer. Oh, my God.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, the other bad crash was in Vermont. It was going down a super steep hill in a road race. This was the type of hill where you have to and this is very rare on a road bike but you have to really lean back while you're braking or you can flip over. But someone went down right in front of me and I just remember flying over my handlebars and you know, I didn't again, woke up 15 minutes later or something. Didn't know where I was. But I can attest to the fact that if you are ever in an accident, your last, your very last words will probably be a swear word, because I do remember what I said.

Jen:

Oh, I'm sure, when you went airborne it was like because you know it's going to happen, Like, oh my God, that's.

Jen:

That's crazy first of all, and so is it when you say it's predictable. Is it because there's certain parts of the course that you know we're going to cause a pileup? Or are there certain people that you know you're racing against, that are known to be like super aggressive and to like basically go to the point where they're either going to win or they're going to cause something, cause a disaster, Like what makes them predictable, I guess?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Oh, I mean you can't predict who and when, but you can predict that in general, the law of averages they have, so they're not infrequent, unfortunately. So you know, most racers will crash at least once in a season and the pavement really hurts, you know, and you know the worst part is the road rash and it's just one of the most uncomfortable feelings.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

You know, when you're in a big race, the newer racers are much more likely to crash. I know, you know, in my second year racing you know it was the national championship tonight I had crashed like every single week for five weeks. And here I am at nationals and I really want to do well and I crashed early in the race and somehow I didn't even get up and get back in the race and I managed to like find my way into another crash. So I got to crash twice in that one.

Jen:

Oh nice, yeah, no, I would imagine that it's. It's just like any other skill. Like you know, you need to learn the anticipation and how to read the field and stuff, I would imagine. And if you don't learn that, you're not going to make it very far.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, when you're new you're a little more squirrely. You're uncomfortable with people so close to you. You're also working a heck of a lot harder than everyone else to stay up with the pack, so you're more tired. But a lot is just experience.

Jen:

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. So given that now that we've talked about these catastrophic wipeouts, yet you still continue to do this and kept looking for a higher level to get to, or like, how does that whole thing? You know, as a barely mediocre person, at anything I ever try, I've never been tapped to be on an Olympic team. How does that wind up working?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Well, it changes every four years, but the year I was on it there would be two that were coaches selection. Two athletes were coaches selection and one was the winner of an Olympic trials race. And that year, in 2000, there was one Olympic trials race. So the winner of one single race got to go. And it was really interesting because four years before, I think it was, there were five races, because four years before, I think it was, there were five races and it was whoever had, I think, the lowest score in all of them, or, you know, whoever had the most points in out of all five races was the one that went in.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

In racing there's a real element of chance in every race you do. So you know it's interesting that they chose one race. You know, I always say in cycling, a great racer probably loses 90% of the race days that they enter. I always say there was a lot of luck and a lot of planning and the race was very suited to my skills. It was a flatter race. It had an uphill sprint. I was always very good at sprints and being on the smaller side, uphill was an advantage as well. But I was also in the best shape I'd ever been in for the race and had trained very specifically for that race and was very focused on it. So it's a little of both.

Jen:

So is that just? It wasn't like there was only one race that year. It's like that there was a particular race that arbitrarily got selected by the Olympic Committee is like this is going to? Or the US cycling, is like this is going to be our race, that we are going to work toward and pick people from. Is that, is that? Does that become public knowledge to everybody? And then you basically put it in your crosshairs and you're like all right, this is. It is surprising that they would pick one, because I yeah, you don't even need to tell me that it makes sense that you crash or don't win most of what you do. I can't believe that there weren't multiple opportunities to kind of prove yourself through the season.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

And yeah, and they did have only one. One of the three racers was the winner of that race, the other two, the coaches got to choose and it had nothing to do with that race.

Jen:

Yeah, which also sounds a little bit problematic, but oh, oh, my gosh.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Always, it is always always problematic. How do you choose? And yeah, you know there's. You're always choosing from many more people and other people are gonna have differences of opinion all kinds of drama yes, all kinds of drama.

Jen:

And so you're operating in this space, you go to the olympics. Was this ever anything you ever thought about? And just tell me about the experience in general. I mean, I imagine aust, imagine Australia was pretty cool, because that's just the whole thing is just amazing, I mean absolutely so.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I did the 96 Olympic trials and I was still a baby cyclist. It was my second year racing on the circuit and that was when they had the five races and I did, you know quite well I think I was the top new rider there and I know that year I was in Bella News, which is a publication that was sort of it was the top up and coming racer that they would choose one every year. So I'd done a 10th in one of the races and a fourth in the other, and it was after that that I'm like I want to. I was going to go for the Olympics and I was focused on 2000.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

So you know, I I really, to get ready for the Olympic trials, I'd done really everything right. I'd found, you know I'd previewed the course a year ahead of time, you know knew that it was an uphill sprint, did a lot of work on uphill sprints and trained at altitude to get ready for it. You know, just rearranged my whole life to be really ready for that one race and you know it's it was still a long shot. I was not a favorite to win in any any way, shape or form, but I wasn't. It wasn't unheard of that I would win either.

Jen:

Yeah, and, and so did you win that. Did you win the trial, or were you one of the coaches picks because you had been such a uh up and comer in the previous Olympic trials?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Oh, I had to win the trials. I was definitely not going to be picked by the coaches. There were other athletes that were, I think, more gifted, more experienced and stronger overall. As a sprinter you know sprinters I always say in the world of bike racing, you've got your 100-meter dash people in with your marathoners and everything in between, and I was more a 100-meter dash person racing against the marathoners and sort of the sweet spot in many ways for a road race would be someone that would be a 5k runner type, so a little bit more endurance than I would have.

Jen:

So I really had to win it no-transcript where you went and I would love to hear you kind of recap that a little bit too for everybody.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, so I think that might be three questions. If I think your first was you know what my lifestyle looked like at the time and you know it was. It was bare bones. Um. My first year out of college I had rented an apartment with some friends. Or second year out of college, and when I made the Olympic trials I was gone for the winter and ended up um, so where do you guys train?

Jen:

I'm just curious, like, where were you training at that point? Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I was in Palo Alto, california, which I still think is possibly the best place to train in the world.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

The terrain was absolutely perfect and it was stunningly beautiful and the weather was great and all the races, at least in the US, started out in California, arizona, new Mexico area. But yeah, my life was bare bones. After my second year I bought the dilapidated team van that we had and essentially moved into it, and I'd rented a house with some friends and it was a four bedroom house and we used to joke that the fifth bedroom was the van that I lived in. Out front it had been converted so it did have a bed and a little kitchen, but we had an extension cord that went from the house to my van and it was $200 a month instead of 700. And that was directly correlated to working a heck of a lot less. So I was able to work part time, part year and, to you know, to exactly accommodate racing, and it was. It was key. You know when you're training or training 20 to 30 hours a week and you're tired.

Jen:

Right and your luggage when you're not training, I would imagine.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, most of us can't work full time. There's definitely a few that have done it and done it successfully Christine Thorburn, who went to the Olympics twice as a doctor at Stanford tremendous, and she worked as a doctor. I have no idea how she did it, but for me it was. You know, I have a lifestyle where I could really focus on training. You know, I didn't make money, but I probably made $6,000 a year all of those years. But I was able to focus, which was wonderful, you know, and it was interesting.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

We were doing the female equivalent of what the men were doing. You know, we had prize money. It was always less than the men. We had teams and the top racers would have a salary, again much, much less than the men. So, you know, at the time I was racing, a good salary could be five thousand dollars. And you know, if you were the best cyclist, I don't know, maybe you made 10 or 20,000 a year, I don't know, but the vast majority were not paid and probably, you know, probably 15 might be making, you know, two to $5,000. So I sometimes would call it professional cycling, but most often we'll call it full time cycling.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, I used to joke that we had, you know, my first year after the Olympic trials in 96, when I got on my first pro team. After that early success, I got on my first professional cycling team, which was Team Shackley, and my salary was $15 a race day, up to $800.

Jen:

Oh my.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

God A food stipend and I was so excited I don't have to pay for food anymore.

Jen:

A food stipend. Oh my God, oh my God, I can't even. And so, and and just as an aside, what are your parents telling you at this point? Like I just I am always curious about that because, like, obviously it's super cool that you're on the Olympic team or whatever, but they're like, okay, we sent you to MIT and Stanford and you're dirt biking, basically like versus dirt bagging. You know, you're living in a van, in somebody's driveway, and you're rejoicing at the fact that somebody is giving you, is reimbursing you for all the ramen you're eating. Like, what was the message you were getting then?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Right, well, I was definitely on the downward spiral.

Jen:

I. They said to get a real job. But yeah, but her parents are tough so I'm like I can't even imagine like my parents would have been, like what the ever-loving f are you doing like, but I, you know, look I from their perspective, I think it was.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

It was terrifying. It was, you know it's making no money and you know I stayed with it for for many years. And and there was a know I was making no money and you know I stayed with it for many years. And there was a point when I was retiring from racing and I'm like, what do I do? I'm now, you know, 33. I really haven't worked full time at any job. I've had, you know, pretty low level jobs and you know I used to joke. I looked through the want ad and the only things I felt like I was qualified to do would say costume provided, you know, and I had this image of myself wearing a little hot dog costume on the side of the road. So I think they were. You know there's came from a place of love which was worried about you.

Jen:

Yeah, I could see that it's giving me stress just thinking about it, but that's it's pretty amazing that you know at the same time, they obviously supported you in your initial endeavors. And then that kind of like yeah, leads me to what you were talking about of, of the role of, you know, nurture versus nature in some ways, of how you felt about, like, where you got and where other people would get, based on how much support they were getting. So talk a little bit about that.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Oh, I feel like I was so fortunate on the support side. You know, I was at Stanford my senior year and there was an older racer a few years older who was on Shackley, and there was a guy who was dating, steve Miller, who had raced domestically as a professional and so there was a history of it and a racing pro. And Steve was so helpful. I mean, he knew what races to go to, he knew about training, he would suggest which races I go to, and at the time there were two other cyclists that were first year as well on the team at Stanford and they were interested in continuing on with racing.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

So it was an amazing sort of network to know what to do and how to do it, and I think that's sometimes the hardest problem, like where do you start, what do you do, and to have someone not only tell me where to go and help me get there and also be racing. It was such an asset. And you know, my first year out I joined forces and formed a team that included four or five collegiate racers that were in our conference and again there were some really standout racers that year, and so we all traveled together to the races and I think that was just so lucky. Had I been on the East Coast or elsewhere, I probably wouldn't have found any of that network and it wouldn't even have occurred to me to continue racing.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, it's so true and actually you saying that kind of makes me maybe maybe I'm going to leapfrog where I was going to talk about, just because you mentioned you know where do I start, what do I do and you know. Right now you find yourself after many, many years of work in bike advocacy, all essentially across the country in various capacities. You are now the head of NEMBA, which is the New England Mountain Bike Association, because you also mountain bike and gravel bike and ride every kind of bike. E-bike, no-transcript up at these things can be a huge barrier. So why don't you talk a little bit about how NEMBA is structured and where the opportunities are for people who are just completely new and really want to meet some new people and get the skills to make them feel a little bit more confident doing whatever what's available to people that are just kind of coming out of nowhere?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah you. What you're saying is so on point. Look, anytime you try something new, especially in sports, I think it can be so intimidating. And you know if you are, if you have never mountain biked before and you show up at anything mountain biking, what you are going to see is a group of people that are wearing the same clothes. They might be talking, you know, using words that you don't even know as they talk, or there's a culture around it.

Jen:

A lot of them already know each other and you know, even though we're all grown ass adults. Some of us feel a little insecure about showing up in those situations.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

There's the cool kids. The non-cool kids there's going to be on fancy bikes that you don't even recognize as a bike. They'll all have the same racks and cars and it's just so intimidating. And, what's amazing, it can take someone that is so confident in some other part of their life and make them so shy. And one of the things we're doing is really working hard to engage more women in mountain biking. We're doing is really working hard to engage more women in mountain biking.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Right now, nimba the membership is about 80% male or male identifying, and that's actually relatively consistent with the other mountain bike groups in the country. And the thing is, when I look around the country that is very skewed from the actual population, which seems to be about 50-50. So there's something that we need to do to be much more inviting. So at Nimba we are making an effort to start hosting a lot more women's events and particularly beginner women's clinics. So we've, for two years now since I started, started training many of our chapter leaders in how to lead beginner women's clinics and you know some of it is you show up and you know one. Just put it on as a beginner women's clinic in an accessible spot very close to someone's home matters. People aren't going to drive two hours, let alone 30 minutes, to try something new. So location matters and that's why we'll have them scattered around New England. Number two you introduce everyone and welcome everyone. You know, when they first get there, then no one feels like I don't fit in. And then number three is just lead a clinic that is in one spot. No one's gonna feel like they can't do anything. It's not like you're going into the woods and some people can't keep up because of fitness. So you know it's a more controlled environment, but over time it works. You know, if you do a hundred people the first year, 200 the next year, a thousand the next year, it's a big difference and you know it's interesting.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I was trying to explain this to a group that was more men and I said look, you know we're going to be doing this. And I said here's some of the comments I heard. You know some of the comments I heard was like why do we need this? We always welcome women and you know why are we excluding men? And I think there was like what? You know, we're not doing anything wrong. What's wrong? And and I, you know I tried to explain that in terms of you know, just imagine you are invited by a woman to go to an event that is like vegan vegan singing, vegans for singing, and you have to sing in public in front of an all women group of vegans. I mean something that they know they just would not fit in with and I think that sort of helped them resonate. They would feel very uncomfortable. So it's an environment when you are, when you don't look like everyone else in the group and have the same experience. It's intimidating and I think we're trying to break that down.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, which is it's awesome. I'm like I do have these urges as I get older. I'm like I would have wanted to punch that guy because it's like it is so true, they're just so. I mean this even happens with my husband sometimes. Like he's just so, he's just such a white guy and there's just like such a I mean, and you know, and that's, that's not. I mean, I'm a white woman and I have my own set of things that I've just like had without even trying or thinking about for so long, and it becomes so ingrained that it's just almost impossible. It takes so much to knock them out of their their sense of where they are, to make them maybe think about where other people are at. You know, because I mean I was sharing this story with you when we met Like I did a trail day not that long ago just to help out with stuff, right?

Jen:

So, first off, only two women show up. One of them lives in the area and knows everybody, so and we were not on the same team, but even that like I. So I go out into the field with all these guys who, you know, don't really know each other. None of them knew what the hell they were doing on trail cleanup either and they were all like super nice.

Jen:

But as the day went on like not a single one ever asked me a question, Like they all start talking about where they had ridden and they're getting to know each other and they're all just like doing their thing, and I'm sitting there with my claw just like digging leaves out of a fucking culvert, and just you know whatever, this is what I'm here for and they're just like doing the whole bro thing, and it wasn't like they were being.

Jen:

They weren't doing it purposely to make me feel left out and I don't. You know, I'm kind of at the age where I'm like I don't really give a fuck anyway, so I'm like, whatever, I'm just doing my thing. But it was just so interesting to pay attention to that because, you know, 20 years ago I would have shown up at that and just not even I would have been small and just been okay with the position and just thought, oh, this is the way it is. All the time I'm starting to question that when I get out to places, because I'm like, how do you expect any women to show up at these things if this is the experience they have? And I'm like, I'm not even intimidated by this and I'm finding it to be not super welcoming.

Jen:

You know, right, right and and yeah, we said what our names were, but that was the extent of it and there was no. You know, they just don't know enough to be like, hey, let's, let's. I don't know, it was just like, oh, my god, how do you work that out of? I know there were guys of all ages too. It wasn't even like it was all old guys, like even the young guys, were like I'm gonna talk to this other guy about going to Asheville or going to Brevard or going to King's Kingdom Trails, and I'm like, at the end of the day, I've been to some of these places, but I'm like not going to interject into your conversation because you're leaving me out. You know what I mean. It's just, it was curious, it was very, yeah, anyway.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, I mean it's interesting. Yeah, I wish I'd taken more sociology, but it's all explainable and you know, the reality is nobody has a bad bone in their body. It's just group dynamics and it is really hard to be, you know, one or two in a group of, in a larger group. So one or two women in a larger group is tough. One or two men in a large group of women can be tough, you know, but it is interesting. I remember talking to a guy about a woman's event and saying, hey, what is the most appropriate way to put on a woman's event? What do I call it? How do you make it open? How do you include?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

all genders or be gender inclusive. And he was a gay man and he said it's interesting because I would feel more comfortable in a setting that's probably all women, and I said, well, you should be invited then, because I would feel more comfortable in a setting that's probably all women and I said, well, you should be invited then. And so in many ways I like to think of the events as trying to organize a group that is a little self-selective towards who's going to feel comfortable in it. So it's a women's event, but everyone's welcome and people will self-select towards it.

Jen:

And what we currently have right now is when it's 80%, it's a little bit more men's event that everyone's welcome to. So it's women's mountain bike festival. That was organized by a woman that I've talked to on the podcast and it was a great experience and I loved it and, you know, drove all the way out there because it was so kind of affirming the first time and it is a different vibe even than just a co-ed group. That's like more women than men. It's a different vibe.

Jen:

It's just a totally different vibe when it's all women or all you know gender identifying as female, or you know just non-binary. It's just such a different vibe.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

It is and let's create that so everyone who wants that can have it. You know it's really. We have a women's event coming up next weekend Elevate, which is in Kingdom Trails. So it's an all women and gender expansive group in partnership with Kingdom Trails and VIMBA, and you know it is a fun weekend. It's also really meaningful to the women. I think it is the first time that you know they are centered in a biking environment.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, and you, you know it's interesting. I I still come back to you know, I think in NIMBA all the men are really supportive of seeing more women being more welcoming to, you know, all ages. But it is really up to up to us to be able to make that happen because, you know, it's the experience that we want to create for more women and I think that will get the ratio closer to 50-50 and more representative.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm so bummed I can't go to that next weekend. Because I was looking once when I got back from way way western New York last year. I'm like, oh my God, I can't do this again. I got to find this, got to be something close to home and of course this June is just a crazy month for us, but next year I'm there.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, it is interesting and I've seen models where it's become 50-50. When I look at the kids' Nordic ski program in Eastern Mass it really is about 50-50. And the vibe is just wonderful and playful and fun and even at the high school level in Eastern Mass in Nordic skiing same thing it is. There are a lot of girls there. It might be a little bit more men than women and I used to coach MIP cycling for many years and that team was just about 50-50 as well and the women traditionally did a little better competitively and I have to say I think some was just being a female leader and coach helped keep more women on the team. But also the men were really smart. Like when you scored in collegiate cycling, the team score was based 50% on the women's scores and 50% on the men's scores, so there was a real effort to keep as many women on that team as possible.

Jen:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jen:

See, yeah, so it can be done no-transcript friends that did it and therefore they just stopped doing it, and that was very disappointing. But also, like you know, the last thing I'm going to do is force them to do something they don't want to do, because my hope is that they'll come back to it later in life, Kind of the way I did, you know, like I didn't. If you had asked me when I was 18 to go mountain biking, I would have been like yeah, no, no, no, I'm not doing that, so I don't want to.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I don't want to soil them on the whole magic of it and hope I'm hoping they'll come back to it someday. But yeah, yeah, I think a big part is comes down to leadership. So in Nimba, what you do see now is a lot more women in positions of leadership, and it's wonderful. So we have 35 chapters. You have more women that are on the leadership team in each chapter. But you know, as you're talking, I was thinking back to the bike racing days.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

You know the women's teams paid a lot less than the men's and the prize money was a lot less. At the time, most of the teams were organized and directed by men and most of the races were directed by men. And I remember thinking to myself we need to put on our own races and we need to form our own team, and when we do that, you know we can pay whatever we want and we can set even, you know, even pay for the races and the prize money. And it did start to happen and you saw some retired racers on the women's side starting teams and they were very, very successful. So I think some is, you know, just do it and get out there and make the change that you want.

Jen:

Yeah, absolutely, I like that. So basically, bottom line, I want to encourage everybody to check out nembaorg Tons of events. You know you can find local chapters or places that are close to you and even if it's just like see where they meet up even if you're not comfortable to like go to an event right away or meet up with a group rider or something or take a clinic, you can at least kind of see where they're riding. You can go, you can walk around, you can check it out. You know, meet some people maybe. So there's a lot of opportunity there. And I guess I want to back up quickly and just talk about you know you mentioned that the women's event next weekend, which is Elevate. Yeah, not too late to register, you can camp it's maybe it is too late to register next year, though Keep it on your calendar.

Jen:

So you're producing that with Vermont Mountain Bike Association and Kingdom Trails Association. You know, how do all these different it's been nice to see a lot more bike organizations kind of popping up here, there and everywhere you know typically around like trail systems. How do you guys all work together? Just tell me a little bit about that.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Oh, it is the nicest group of people Kingdom Trails and VIMBA. You know the spirit is we are completely all in this together and I, I just love it. Like everyone wanted to do an event together, we're doing the event together. You know, I remember once, a long time ago, someone said with nonprofits, the thing is they are both your, your peers, and your competitors, and I don't feel any competitor energy with any of these mountain bike groups. So it's, it's wonderful, and I think there's such a love of mountain biking that it transcends, you know, any of the competitive energy someone could have and we just want to see the sport succeed.

Jen:

Yeah, absolutely, and it is. It's very cool. So I just want everybody to kind of get involved. And you know and I'm the first to admit that I, early on in my mountain biking journey, had tried to tag into a couple of number of things and I was a little intimidated, and this was like 10 years ago. So life has changed and I'm like recommitting myself to getting more involved and maybe even going to trail school in a couple of weekends. I got to still figure that out, but I'd love to do that as well Learn how to build some trails more like, so that next time when I go and I'm with a bunch of clueless men, I can be like everybody, hold my beer, we're going to do this right, all right.

Jen:

So let's talk quickly about just essentially kind of the why bikes like you have been involved in bike advocacy far beyond mountain biking and like much more bikes as a utilitarian part of your life. That is important. So talk a little bit about, like, how you fell into that kind of line of work because, as you said, you got out of professional cycling. You're like OK, I don't want to wear a banana suit. What am I going to do now? Hot dog, hot dog, hot dog, sorry. And you were also involved in one of the coolest things I ever did when I was right, when I was living in the city, which was hub on wheels, and I can't remember if it was the first or second year that I did it, but you were, you were essentially incremental in doing that. So I want to hear about like kind of your evolution and and where you took bike advocacy. You know, first on the east coast and you went west and you're in midwest. Like talk a little bit about that progression before we close out oh yeah, I again.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Second luckiest um part of life was as I was contemplating wearing a hot dog costume with a sign I would move back to Boston because I wanted to live here and I was retiring from racing, and a friend of a friend came up to me and said you know, she has a friend that's putting on this ride called the Hub on Wheels ride for the city of Boston. He needs a little help. So I was, you know, helping five, ten hours a week to put on the ride that you mentioned. And you know, at the end of that year the person who was running it stepped down. You know I started running the event and a few months later I was still working for the city of Boston, very part time.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

You know the mayor was getting interested in starting a bike program like many other cities had had and you know, the mayor's chief of policy asked me for a resume. I gave it to him. He's like do you want the job? And I said no, no, I think you need to get someone really experienced. Do you want me to find someone? And then I crawl in the next day. I'm like, yes, I want that job. So I mean, I was incredibly lucky. You know the part-time job I had when I was racing was working in the Stanford Transportation Department at Stanford University, so I had some experience with bike planning.

Jen:

I majored in urban planning, but yes, and this is let's put a pin in this, though for two seconds. Ok, so you were a frickin Olympic based bike racer. You had an undergrad degree in what was relevant and you had been working in what was relevant and you still had imposter syndrome, like what is wrong with us.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I mean there were so many people that had much more experience, real experience. You know, I was 34 at the time and I never worked a full-time job. I knew nothing about city government and I have to say what was incredible being for the city of Boston. There was the strongest bike advocacy community already there and you know they put me on the path to succeed and made sure it would be successful. You know, in the and I, you know it was also it was a lot like Stanford going into professional cycling.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

In the first month they helped organize and really led on a bike summit for the Boston area and they brought in experts from around the country to lead it. They called up all of the folks in the state and the city and the state parks department, dcr, to attend it. They knew who to get to the summit and you know, from there I had all the contacts I needed. It was. I could not have been set up better and all along the way they, you know they pointed me in the right direction and I am so grateful. I mean it was the smartest community and such a key to success.

Jen:

Yeah, you know, was that? Was that when they were talking about like extending the rail trail that was coming in from Bedford and like there was a lot going on at that time in history? Right, I mean as far as like?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

and like there was a lot going on at that time in history, right, I mean as far as like yeah, when I started it was uh fall 2007, so early 2008. Uh, there was not a single mile of bike lane in Boston. I think. There was 200 feet uh near northeastern and it was probably a little faded out at that point. So no bike lanes.

Jen:

No blue bikes. None of those bikes share services, none.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

None of the lanes, yeah, none of that, and the focus really was on Boston proper and getting in painted bike lanes anything. And so you know, one of the best outcomes of that summit for me was a tool design group was arguably the best design and engineering firm for bike lanes and they set up an office in Boston. They were so competent and we hired them to be designing bike lanes and help us with the network plan and they did a tremendous job. And with the advocate committee we could go into public meetings and win those public meetings and make a great case and we'd have people sort of supporting it. And obviously it goes without saying I think may or many know for any program to be successful you need a mayor that is 100% behind it and he was.

Jen:

Yeah, it was very cool to watch from afar at that point. I think I moved out of the city shortly after that. But just because I remember, you know I bought I think I bought my first bike for myself, like a little hybrid when I lived in the city. I used to, you know, ride along the river and all that and but it was like Frogger trying to get from, you know, the places that were safe off road. To bike and then back to like your apartment would be totally death defying thing because there weren't any lanes. You know people in cars had zero interest in giving you space. Or, you know, nobody was talking about being safe with bikers and nobody really gave a shit because it was Boston about being safe with bikers and nobody really gave a shit because it was Boston about being safe with bikers. And so it has changed so dramatically in a relatively short period of time and it's just been so awesome to watch.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, during my term there. It was 2008 to 2015. I left a year after Menina left office, but we were still, for the most part, picking off low-hanging fruit, so painted bike lanes where we could maintain most of the parking. Anytime you try to remove parking, it's like removing a constitutional right in the Air Bays, or at least at the time.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I think one of the greatest successes was between the bike lanes that we put in and launching Bike Share. By picking off the low hanging fruit early, we had institutionalized the fact that bikes belong and we had gotten the movement to a point of no return. So you couldn't just stop, you had to keep going forward. You know if you were the next mayor, but we also did it cautiously enough so there wasn't a real bike lash against it. You know, and you saw in some other cities that moved so fast that the next mayor would run on a campaign of taking out the bike lanes. So I think it was successful. And what's been tremendous is to see how much progress has been made in the nine years since and you know it's taken it to a whole new level. So now you're getting a lot of protected bike lanes where the bikes you know it's not just paint separating the bikes from the moving car. And then you know, I think with the work from my successor it's been truly transformative.

Jen:

Yeah, no, I would totally agree. I haven't ridden in the city in a while but, like every time I'm in there just as a pedestrian, it's very noticeable how much more of a network there is and, as you said, how much more protected you are. It isn't just like paint in the middle of the road anymore. It's definitely lots of areas that have been very well thought out as like how cars and parked cars and bikers are going to interact.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

So that's awesome, yeah, and Mayor Wu could not be more supportive. She's the dream mayor if you want to be putting in bike lanes and promoting cycling.

Jen:

Right. And so let's take a 20,000 foot view on that. Why bikes Like? Why is this important?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Well, I mean you could make a thousand cases, but at this point sustainability is an amazing case. It gets people out of their cars, but an electric vehicle also helps with sustainability, I think number two these cities are usually crowded and when you are creating space for parking, creating space for cars, it is incredibly valuable real estate turned over to a car and that could be used for so many other purposes. But I think three at this point is just pure mobility and accessibility. There was so much traffic in all of these cities and the population keeps growing that you need other ways to get to your destination. And when you're in Boston, biking is faster, cheaper and more convenient than any other method to get around, and that is so important. You know when you have and that's what people are looking for fast, cheap, convenient and, not to mention, when people bike, they love it. So you're literally taking the worst part of your day commuting and making it the best part of your day. So you know pure happiness and bring joy to people.

Jen:

That's a good that, that's. Those are all very good points. I can tell somebody's asked you that question before.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah and no, and the answer changes. Like historically we would say well, look, you know the environment, economically it's cheaper, and health. But I think at this point the reality is, for people that are making that decision, they just want to get to their destination faster, cheaper, a little bit more joyfully and a little bit more conveniently. And there is in the back of their minds, they are doing something great for the environment and that's wonderful. But the reality is they don't have to search for parking, they don't have to pay for parking, they don't have to pay for public transit, they don't have to transfer in public transit. You know, yeah, yeah and oh my gosh, they liked it Right and now, and they don't feel like they have to risk their lives.

Jen:

They feel like it's safe now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so this is a good segue into maybe the last thing I'll talk about with you today even though I could like keep talking to you a hundred hours and we already talked a hundred hours before is e-bikes. Like I think that you know, on that same, same note, you know, e-bikes are just blowing up, Like I see that I'm seeing them even out here in the suburbs, like all over the place, and so talk to me a little bit about, like what you know, how you feel about e-bikes, both from, I mean, I kind of know how you feel about e-bikes, but like both from a, you know, bike commuter in an urban environment standpoint, but also they're creeping onto the trails now and like, let's talk about that.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Well, I think, from a road perspective, I think they are just the final piece of the puzzle and they are so, so impactful in all these wonderful ways. You know e-bikes and we're talking about bikes where you still have to pedal these bikes and they have a limited speed of, you know, 20 or 28 miles yeah they're not motorcycles.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

You're always pedaling them, they e-bike, they shrink distances and they flatten hills and they make biking just even more convenient. You get to your destination, you don't have to dread the hill, you don't have to wonder if you can make it up the hill and you can carry the groceries you want to carry, you can carry the kids on the back of the bike. They just make it so much more convenient, so much more enjoyable. And where I think they're unbelievably powerful is actually in the suburbs. And I just moved from Somerville to Arlington. All the distances are long and I worked in Newton. So when you're in the suburbs, the distances are longer, you don't have to pay for parking and there's a lot more hills. And when you're on a standard bike, cycling is no longer faster, it's no longer cheaper and it's no longer more convenient than driving. So you've lost your triad or trifecta of advantages. You get yourself on an e-bike, you are now faster again and you are now more convenient than a car. So again, the great equalizer, yeah.

Jen:

That's what I've noticed is like just, it seems to be a huge accessibility of the sport issue. I see so many people on bikes now that I didn't used to see on bikes of all different. You know of all different, you know shades of whatever, and I'm like this is awesome. I mean you know, because I love biking.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

But biking can be really hard depending on where you're biking Right, it is you know, it is practically, in one sense, like it's practically a revolution, the number of when you're on Minuteman bike path, you see the percentage of women with kids on the bike is so high and it's making it possible for women to be out of their car to get their kids to school. You also see men on the bike with kids too, but the number of kids you see on these bikes, the number of people who would never have commuted in from the suburbs are now commuting into Boston. The other thing you can see is older adults that particularly might have had a bad knee or some reason. They couldn't ride a standard bike able to ride an e-bike. So from a commuting perspective, just unbelievable.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

And yeah, the other day I had my e-bike parked in front of a coffee shop in Concord and I can't tell you the number of people that stopped and you know a couple had the same bike. They're like, oh my God, it's transformative. And you know, you hear about these, these people, they all have the same story. It's like I no longer use my car. It's exactly what the bike advocates have wanted. Is, you know, in many ways, something that really encourages people to bike instead of instead of?

Jen:

drive? Yeah, absolutely, and you know they like. Yeah, they're still relatively expensive, but actually bikes are expensive, and you know.

Jen:

And cars are way more expensive, and you know if you factor in you know the insurance and all that other stuff, it's like, even in in this location here, where you know the insurance and all that other stuff, it's like, even in in this location here, where you know, maybe some months of the year not necessarily considered biking weather, it seems like you could recoup your investment if you're into using your bike for all kinds of transportation.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

So it's, it is awesome no matter what, you can recoup your happiness. I mean, no one wants to sit in a car in traffic, nobody yes, that is absolutely true.

Jen:

How about e-bikes on trails, like what's your? Where? Is NEMBA kind of coming down on that? Because I know that's kind of more of a controversial area right now. As far as having supplemental judging, I mean, I see it as as also an access thing, like it's actually getting more people to ride off-road than probably would have considered doing it before. But I know there's probably some other things to think about. So give me your take on that, give me your hot take on that.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

So actually, nima is about to revisit the thinking and get a working group together to talk about the issue.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

The key thing is e-bikes are a really important accessibility issue and we want to be welcoming and inclusive to, you know, really new cyclists, to really really new people to the sport, to, again, older Americans, to, maybe couples where one is slower than the other, to people that have some form of disability Maybe they can still ride a two-wheel bike.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

You know, all of that means figuring out a way for e-bikes to be on the trails safely. The number two thing, in addition to making it inclusive and accessible, is, I think we need to recognize that e-bikes are here, they're growing in popularity and they are going to be on the trails, and it is in a few years. You're not going to be able to look at a bike and know if it's an e-bike or not an e-bike. So you know enforcement is probably not a realistic thing on these trail networks. So you know what kind of policies are appropriate? So I don't know the answers yet. We are getting our working group together and I think the key is to figure out the best way to the best, the best way to incorporate e-bikes.

Jen:

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I agree. I mean, it's kind of like kids and phones. It's like it's you know, we're, we're, we're, we're way past the point of being like, no, no, no, don't let them have phones. Like bottom line, it's the new reality. So like, how can you create an environment where people are using the technology in a way that's fostering goodness all around and not creating bigger problems for systems or you know whatever?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, so well said. Thank you, you did much better than I did.

Jen:

Well, I was thinking about it after we met and I'm like it's kind of like me and my approach to the kids with the phones and I used to be like oh my God, I don't want them on any of this stuff. But like it's, you know, it's the new reality. So it's like, okay, how can, how can we build the guardrails to make it so that this new reality is good for everybody involved?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

through is, you know, number one, the interactions between the people on the e-bikes and people that might be out walking or running or sitting.

Jen:

You know, just being out in the woods or even on a conventional bike, Like I got spanked yesterday by some guy who came like right up behind me because I was on my regular bike and he was on an e-bike and I'm like okay.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Hello, goodbye Yep, on my regular bike, and he was on an e-bike and I'm like, okay, hello, goodbye yep, and you know. Another key consideration is should there be shared trails, separate trails? Uh, does it require more maintenance or not? I think the research so far is showing that they don't cause more wear and tear on the trails. You know, and it's interesting if, if and when e-bikes come, it could potentially mean many more people using the trails. But ultimately, that is, that is a good thing when we get more people in the outdoors, yeah, but there is a safety consideration.

Jen:

I mean, you know, I was on, I was just on a real trail yesterday, but this guy was like he was older, he wasn't wearing a helmet. I'm like, first of all, which is just a dumb idea, because you have way more power on those things than you even have on a regular bike. But you know, I know when you get in the woods, there's this other whole aspect of like I mean, I'm on a regular bike and I'm not super talented on technical sections and sometimes they sneak up on me and I'm not even going that fast or, you know, have that much like momentum or inertia, you know inertia, whatever you want to call it. So, yeah, it's, it's an interesting, interesting conundrum.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yes, you know, in the woods on a standard bike typically your fitness is aligned with your skills, so you often can't go too fast for your skills. On an e bike there's a little more separation there and you can actually go faster than you have skill.

Jen:

That's an interest. I never heard it put that way. Your fitness is aligned with your skills. That's. That is awesome.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yeah, that's that's interesting.

Jen:

Yeah, I like that, or lack thereof. Right, right, all right, this is. This is awesome and I've already taken up so much of your time and I'm like I feel like I just want to.

Jen:

I just want to start hanging out with you like on a weekly basis, so we can just shoot the shit about all of this, but I am going to be respectful of your time because you are running a large organization that has a lot going on and a lot on its plate right now.

Jen:

So I am just going to go right to my last question. Okay that I like to ask everybody and I'm not sure I prepped you for this, but I'll be interested to hear what you have to say your favorite piece of gear that you own that costs less than $50. Oh, oh boy, I am not prepared at all, or most utilitarian, and this is a good space to be asking that question, because I feel like, along with you know, we didn't even get into being a woman or a newbie walking into a bike store. That's its own separate episode because it still makes me foamy in the brain on that. But, like you know, biking, skiing, there's a lot of activities that just I get so much joy out of but also can be super expensive to get into from the get-go. So this is why I like to always come back to like there's always something that you could be using in this space that isn't expensive.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Okay, the most, the best piece of gear I have under $50 is probably half of the bicycles I own that I use for commuting around town and in the rain.

Jen:

Okay so talk more about that. Are you getting these for less than 50 bucks because you are who you are? Are you getting these for less than 50 bucks because you know where to look for them?

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

No, they are decaying in my basement and they're old bikes that I had. So I have two of my racing bikes from 2005 I've got uh, but those didn't cost you less than 50 bucks to start with. No, but you know, if I were to try to sell them, I couldn't get anything for them at this point. So I call them a 50 value. Yeah, you know, a couple of bikes from 94, one from 96. You know you can't. These things are so bad, but you use them all the time. It's like one bike has a flat. I go to this bike, I've got a guest coming. My daughter fits one but not the other.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

And you know, I think the biggest point is it's not. It's not about gear. You can have a great time on any bicycle, um, and you can just you can get started on absolutely anything and you can be great on anything right, yeah, no, that's true, we were talking about the gary fisher earlier.

Jen:

Um, yeah, as that, I I'm like a little bit sad to have upgraded my bike, because now I feel like I need to upgrade my skill level and I won't I won't, I'm not a pleasant surprise to anybody when they encounter me on the trail.

Jen:

now, now, now they expect a lot more of me, which is a little bit disconcerting. But if you were going to walk into a store today and buy something that's less than 50 bucks, is there anything you can think of in your capacity as a professional biker basically, you bike all the time that would be in that category.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

I would get two CO2 cartridges and two new tubes. You know, the whole time I was making making 6,000 a year or whatever it was total I kept thinking I can't wait for a time when I can afford a new tube. Instead of patching a tube, and to hell with the pumps, I'm going for the CO2 cartridge tube, and to hell with the pumps.

Jen:

I'm going for the CO2 cartridge. Nice, I love it. That's actually good. That's a good thing, because every time I go biking by myself and I'm far from my house, I am just crossing my fingers because there is nothing. I hate more, because I don't do it enough and I'm not good at it, than changing a tube, because the only time it ever happens is the hottest, most most mosquito ridden day, when you're the furthest away from your house and there's nobody around to help you.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Yes, oh, yes, yep.

Jen:

Oh my God, All right, all right, nicole. Well, this is awesome. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time this morning and I just, yeah, as I said, I could probably talk to you for 27 more days, but I'm not going to. I'm going to respect your time.

Jen:

Everybody, get out there, nembaorg, check out what's going on, check out all the different chapters, try to start local, get involved or pick something fun that's coming up that you want to do and go check it out. There's so many beautiful spots to ride right now. All these little local organizations are doing so much to build out these trail systems and mark them and make it so much easier than it ever has been to dip your toe into this sport. You know, between trail forks and all the maps that they have. Like I was at Bear Brook last weekend and I remember when I started camping at Bear Brook, like you'd get the trail map when you checked in and it was literally just about like a couple of walking trails on that property and now they have. There's such a huge network of bike trails.

Jen:

It's like insane. There is literally something for everybody, no matter what your capabilities are, so get out there.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

And if I can put in a plug we have Of course you can? I think we have three women's clinics right now posted to our website for the next three or four weeks.

Jen:

Awesome, and they're going to keep coming up, right? I mean, you're going to do them all summer. I would think, right, yes, we will have more coming up for sure. All right, I will link to some of those in the show notes for this, because I do want to encourage everybody to just get out there, make a new friend, you know, find somebody to ride with or meet up with once in a while, and you know, you don't even have to be super into it, just get out there and do it so fun.

Nicole Freedman, NEMBA:

Wonderful. Thank you so much for for talking today.

Jen:

Oh, my god, my pleasure. Okay, some quick notes to end this one. Nicole and I talked a bit about the Elevate Women's event that was going to be held at Kingdom Trails, and it took me so dang long to edit this that it actually already happened, but I've linked to the Elevate webpage in the show notes so you can be on the lookout for the 2025 event once it's announced. Should do, in a timely fashion, was sign up for and participate in NEMBA's trail school. That was held at Middlesex Fells in Mass back at the end of June, and I've got a recap of that weekend event that will hopefully be coming out in NEMBA's Singletracks member magazine, along with a special feature conversation with Paula Burton, a longtime trail builder and NEMBA trail school instructor.

Jen:

Paula and I also had a lot of fun talking about the evolution of bike trail design and reminiscing about the days when mansplaining and microaggression weren't yet terms in everyone's vernacular but were actually pretty common in real life occurrences out on the trails. So be on the lookout for more bike goodness as well as some fun new conversations. I'm working on that I'll be sharing with you in the coming weeks and with that, grab a rogue hoe. Join a bunch of soon-to-be awesome friends at a local trail day and start getting even more wild.