Guides Gone Wild

Dip Down to Rise Up (Together): Amy Hopkins, Saltwater Mountain Co.

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Coming in HOT this week! Amy Hopkins is the founder of Saltwater Mountain Co., a cold-water dipping and wellness outfitter based in York, Maine, so I was stoked to talk to her, hoping that a tiny bit of thinking about all the cold water would translate into cooling me down in the crazy humid September summer we're experiencing!

We do indeed talk a lot about cold water dipping today - and so much more. Amy brings a unique compendium of skills and life experiences to her latest entrepreneurial endeavor, which should serve as great inspiration for all of us - basically a reminder that it’s really never too late to change your mind and try some new and different things.

This is a timely message for all those high school seniors/college freshmen out there - I hope they listen to this one and realize they doesn’t have to have their whole life figured out at 17! There will be plenty of opportunities to expand, grow and pivot to come - and bottom line, trying something new and challenging yourself with a little discomfort can have some hugely positive effects on your mental health!

Make sure to follow Amy’s Instagram page @dipdowntoriseup for her schedule of community dips, and be sure to check out the SaltwaterMountainCo.com website for more information on retreat offerings and all of the other fun ways Amy is blending her loves of cold water, yoga, bodywork, and more into uplifting experiences for her growing community.

And of course, grab a super-cozy Saltwater Mountain Co. Dry Robe or some other fun merch from her online store while you’re there!

Laps of links!:

And some related fun listens:

Amy Hopkins:

This to me feels like this is my daily medicine, like this is my daily pill of joy, of community, of antidepressant and belonging.

Jen:

Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild. Welcome to Guides Gone Wild. This is Jen and, in case you're new here, this is my podcast where I talk to some of the most fun and inspiring women who are guiding and doing cool stuff in the outdoors.

Jen:

Today's guest is very upper-po given those parameters and the wacky weather. Summer, this has been water, water everywhere, and still so, so steamy hot in September. Amy Hopkins is the founder of Saltwater Mountain Co. A cold water dipping and wellness outfitter based in York, maine. So I was stoked to talk to her, hoping that even just more thinking about all the cold water would translate into cooling me down in my stupidly hot and humid old house. And we do indeed talk a lot about cold water dipping today, but we also talk about so much more.

Jen:

Amy brings a unique compendium of skills and life experiences to her latest entrepreneurial endeavor, which should serve as great inspiration for all of us, basically a reminder that it's really never too late to change your mind and try some new and different things. This message is very timely too. I'm hoping my high school senior will listen to this even though I know she won't and realize she doesn't have to have her whole life figured out at 17. Plenty of opportunities to expand, grow and pivot. To come In bottom line, trying something new and challenging yourself with a little discomfort can have some hugely positive effects on your mental health. But don't just take it from me. Let's dip down to Rise Up with Amy Hopkins of Saltwater Mountain Co. We're rocking and rolling. Amy Hopkins, saltwater Mountain Company. Thank you for joining me this beautiful, hot as heck 18th day in a row morning.

Amy Hopkins:

Hotest day of the summer as we head into fall.

Jen:

I know, I know. Yeah, it's hard to kind of think about fall when I don't know. These are when I really need to doubly work my gratitude of living in this area, because I don't like being really cold, I don't like being really hot, I just like it in the middle. But I do have a lot of middle days Today's just not one of them.

Amy Hopkins:

Well, being comfortable in the cold has got me comfortable with being in the hot, so in vice versa.

Jen:

Yeah, well, I'm excited.

Amy Hopkins:

Like the shoulder seasons, and so this has helped me get into those main seasons that are just a little extreme.

Jen:

Yeah, no, I'm excited to talk about that because I keep meaning to maybe start this type of a practice that we're going to talk about with you, and I just can't get into it. I haven't been in the ocean water once all summer.

Amy Hopkins:

I get it. I was not a summer. I live right there.

Jen:

I'm like not maybe as close as you, but I'm like one town away. I'm like what the heck, anyway? So let's back up. So I got introduced to Amy. Amy does some cold water dipping, excursion type things in southern Maine. We talked a long, long time ago to the two main mermaids that were up more in the Portland area. Amy is based in York, which is where good old friend of the pod, trish, lives, and I think you met Trish at the beach or something and yes, yes, you have to meet this woman, you have to talk to her.

Amy Hopkins:

Aw, yeah, we're neighbors actually, so we met like walking dogs and then saw her at the beach and it was yeah, it was beautiful coincidence to run into her, awesome.

Jen:

Well, she and I are. We keep like texting, exchanging texts, about getting up to one of these dips. None of us is much of a morning person, so we're like waiting for an evening one. We'll get you there we're when the riptides are totally crazy. But yes, but I would like to back up and just get to know you a little bit more, because you know, obviously, like everybody, that I ever do a deep dive on on the internet you find out they've got like 90 billion interesting aspects to their personality.

Jen:

So before there was saltwater mountain company, there was a lot of other stuff in your life. So tell me a little bit about you your background in the outdoors, your origin story, why you even decided to, why dipping is important to you yeah, I love that.

Amy Hopkins:

Thank you, jen. I'm so excited to share and I do love telling my story, so I appreciate you being so open to hearing it and I guess immediately I want to back up to when I was at UNH. I went to university, new Hampshire, for my undergrad and was a nursing major. But before I even knew I wanted to do that, I was really introduced to the concept of belonging. I grew up in a small town in Maine, small high school, and so I went to UNH and for me it was a large school and my whole freshman year I was like I'm just not finding my people necessarily easily, which I know is common and so at the end of that freshman year I joined the outing club and I was like you know what, I'm just going to go for it, and that appeals to me.

Jen:

And yeah, why did you pick that over all the other activities you could potentially do to meet people? It's a great question.

Amy Hopkins:

I know there was something outdoorsy and comforting and welcoming. I was really welcomed by whatever the announcement was, to the upcoming trips that I could sign up for, and I remember there were two. I wanted to go right to the biggest trips. I wanted to go to the spring break trip, which was a caving trip in West Virginia, and I wanted to go to the Go West trip, which was a three week road trip out to South Dakota and Wyoming, and it was like leaving on my birthday in May at the end of the year, and I was like, ooh, I want to do that. I want to just do something big to kind of counteract this like where am I? Who am I? And I think that's going to be it.

Jen:

That's sweet outing club. Our outing club went to a cabin, a cabin in the woods that was very similar to where we were going to college.

Amy Hopkins:

Right Damn caving. Yeah, I know, and it toted itself on being, I think well, it was the largest and I think still is student led club at the university. So you go on these sort of trips and you're 19 and 20 years old and you just bond instantly with the people on the trip. So I was again, it comes down to that word belonging, and I think this is where the origin of all of this current stuff came from. I just was like, wow, I've never felt so welcomed, so accepted into a group in. You know, so far at college over this year, you know, into a group that didn't even feel like a group. It was so inclusive, it was so open and, you know, the conversations and the outings were inherently fascinating and beautiful. And so came back from that trip, obviously, you know, with some new best friends, and was psyched. I was like, okay, now I want to be a leader. You know, now I want to lead those trips. So, you know, the short story was that's what I did and so really that was such a pivotal point for me and my college experience and my personal experience and just finding that the outdoors had so much to offer, you know, and it was a chem-free, alcohol-free club and it just took that bullshit out of the way. So it was really real. It was very real for me. So I was comforted, I was welcomed and I was enriched by all these outdoor experiences that I was like, wow, okay, yeah, backpacking, hiking, rock climbing, spelunking. You know, I didn't even know what that word was before I caved. I don't think I need to go caving again, just as a side note. But everything else I fell in love with and the growth you know and development from that was incredible. So that I keep thinking about that because that really was my origin.

Amy Hopkins:

I always, simultaneously, have been interested, was interested in birth and always believed I wanted to be a midwife and had an RA freshman year. That was a huge inspiration to me. She was a nursing major and so I loved her and I loved what she did and I said I'm going to do that. So I became a nursing major, went through the nursing program and did several years of labor and delivery nursing. I did not go to be a midwife.

Amy Hopkins:

I was sort of conflicted with how do you give so much of yourself and take care of yourself at the same time? I was like, whoa, this is not balanced. So I was working actually we're living, my boyfriend at the time and I now my husband, we're living in Colorado and I was being a labor and delivery nurse out there and, of course, engrossed in all the nature you know that Boulder, colorado, has to offer and so loving that but also, at the same time, being like whoa, this night shift thing isn't really healthy and I'm not eating well and drinking well and I think I need a little perspective. And so again, I was sort of like where are my people, where's my, where's my thing? And so I went to, I took a massage class out there, a prenatal massage class, and I was totally hooked, enrolled in the school like the next week, and said I think this is what I want to do. And so I became, I sort of shifted to all the holistic versions of what I was doing. So I became a childbirth educator, a doula, a prenatal yoga instructor, prenatal yoga, prenatal massage therapist, and slowly kind of left nursing a little bit and just did that. So I had my own massage practice and then, you know, realized, wow, I can take care of myself so much easier now that I have this practice and I'm living in this place where I can be outdoors 300 days out of the year, and so that was just a beautiful professional step for me.

Amy Hopkins:

Then we knew we wanted to move back East to start a family. So when we did, I continued working. I did get a job again as a labor and delivery nurse, but was like you know, I really miss massage. I want to get back to that. I miss teaching yoga and, long story short, started sort of left nursing and started a wellness studio of my own and had practitioners join me, some wonderful colleagues, and I did massage and yoga and had some wonderful complimentary you know therapies around me.

Amy Hopkins:

And fast forward 10 years and COVID hit and was dealing with just some hard things in my life as well. Both my parents passed away around that time. The business had to close and, like everyone, sort of like what is going to help me here? And it was January 1st of 2021. And I said to my girlfriend I said let's go into the ocean. I said people do that on New Year's Day. It sounds like a great idea because really, what the hell else are we going to do? Which was like a common theme on the daily, you know, during that time. Right, so we went and it was exhilarating and quick and fun.

Amy Hopkins:

And I remember getting out and feeling like, wow, that felt really good. And then the next day I was like, wow, that felt really good, I need to go back and do that again. And so I did and I didn't stop and so the whole month of January I did it every day and at the end of the month I thought, you know, maybe that's, maybe, that was just a January thing, that was just a cool month long daily ritual and took a few days off in February and I was like I don't feel so good. You know, my mood started to plummet again, just kind of, you know, flat line, and even everyone around me was like, yeah, maybe you should go back in the ocean. And so I did and I didn't really stop and I, you know, I had friends kind of join me. And then eventually I said you know what I want to, I'm going to start an Instagram page. So I did so that I could post, you know, when I was going to be dipping, so we could do it as a community.

Amy Hopkins:

And simultaneously I was sort of feeling like reaching the end of my massage career and I've always sort of done my, my current job, my current profession has always sort of matched where I, where I am in life and what's sort of, what I'm in the mood to do, frankly, and what's sort of calling to me. And so I said, you know what this seems, the cold water, and how it's helping me in my grief, and and that was what it initially was, it really was, you know, and I wrote about this, I think, on the website as a just, it was so balancing for me, so profoundly balancing, because the intensity of the cold matched the intensity of the grief and nothing else in nature or anywhere could do that. And so I was like finding that in nature in a way that blew my mind and also did not surprise me at the same time. You know, it sort of made everything I've learned in my holistic health background kind of come into, like really come in front of my face, but I could feel it on a cellular level, and so that was one piece of it. And then, as I said, I was, you know, ending my massage career and realized, wow, this is, this is about breath and birth. You know the like, my labor and delivery, nursing past, this is like touch. This is actually extreme contact and touch that the ocean is actually doing to me. So they got the massage piece in there, and it's yoga, it's it's walking and posing mindfully as you're in the water and dealing with this deep respect for something much larger than you, and so it all just made perfect sense.

Amy Hopkins:

I said, well, this is what I want to do next in my career. And, of course, even in my head I'm like well, how is that a career? And I had heard of people doing this all over the world, you know, and. But I was really thinking about how it was helping me and how it's helping people in my community. And here we are in Maine and outdoors, and all the things that COVID had just stripped from us. And so that's how I came up with my mission. It felt very collective but very personal, and that is to embrace women's empowerment, support mental health and build community.

Amy Hopkins:

And those were three things that spoke to me so primally and so deeply, and also things I knew that my parents really stood for.

Amy Hopkins:

So that was just the like, the added bonus of like, wow, I am so motivated by this. And there's something here, you know, and I and I'm not one to necessarily read all the studies and read all the books and and I appreciate them and want the info and, you know, have taken it in bite-sized pieces and now have really dove in quite a bit into that. But I, because my experience was feeling it first, before reading about it or learning the facts of the science and the studies, which aren't that many, but is now there, which is so cool I thought this is a really an experiential experience and this is helping me, and now so many people that have started doing this with me so much that I believe it. I believe in it. I believe it because it's I'm feeling it, you know, and so reading about it and learning about what the current science says about it is actually really cool because it just validates what I already have experienced.

Jen:

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because you have a clinical background.

Jen:

I was wondering you know how much of that played into it, or it sounds like it was much more intuitive on your part of just kind of being at a point where you were listening to your body and you knew it felt good and you didn't really know why, but you just forgot to keep doing it.

Jen:

How do you think others that you know in the community aspect of it seems to fall into place once you kind of put yourself out there and say that you're doing something because there is enough curiosity and there are enough people that are just looking for something in many different ways that somehow find their way to this because it's getting a little bit more press. But of the groups you know, of the community that has kind of coalesced around what it is you're doing there, how many people do you think are coming to it because they heard about it on Tim Ferriss podcast, versus how many people are like oh my god, I'm struggling with XYZ and a friend of mine told me to try this and you know and like, and then why do they keep coming back? And is there any difference between the people that approach it scientifically, versus the people who approach it intuitively, that you know make them their customers or whatever?

Amy Hopkins:

Great question? I think the latter. I think they're coming, because their friend said oh my god, you have to do this. And oh my god, you know, and I just learned, everyone is suffering on some level. It might be minor, it might be major. So, in addition to all the wonderful things that may or may not be going on in your life, there's suffering. So it's like if we just we just know that.

Jen:

So but it's interesting that you would pick suffering to address suffering, because to me really freaking cold yes comes out of the gate as suffering. So I'm like, at what point does it transition? And just tell me a little bit about that process, because I'm like I, you know, I hear people talk about it and I'm fairly confident I could get there, but I just can't get past what it feels like on you.

Amy Hopkins:

Yes, that has to do with conditioning and the fact that we're human right. Like freezing cold water is not not intuitively necessarily appealing. Right, it sounds miserable, especially when you're sort of shocked by it or forced into it or just thinking about it like thinking about it is not nice, you know. It's not appealing, Except for today, Except for today Exactly I'm like.

Jen:

I wish I was in right here.

Amy Hopkins:

I wish I was in cold water today and I remember going into a cold tub at a wellness center one time, before I even approached any of this, and being like, oh I, oh, my God, that's too much, that's miserable, I can't do that. I got halfway in and I got out, you know, and that's why now I realize this is a practice versus a plunge. You know it's easy with a huge group near day, run in, run out, it's so doable. You know, positive peer pressure, it's great. I would say. If most people that talk about a lot that it's miserable to them, the idea of being cold is miserable, is miserable, is miserable. But they talk to me a lot about that are often the ones that there is a curiosity there, there's something it's on their brain, it's pulling them, and those are the people that I find that after I've gone in with them multiple times, they're like oh yeah, this is it, I get it now.

Jen:

Yeah, so that's a great, actual way to model it. So tell me how your community dip experience, or the experiences that you're hosting now, differs from that? Everyone shows up hungover at the beach on New Year's Day and runs in and runs out, exactly.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, so really, and that's what I said, yeah, the plunge versus the practice, and that's where sort of the yoga piece of it comes in in the community. So you have this group thing that you're doing. You automatically feel like a belonging and there's a huge acceptance piece. Right, I mean this is not talked about, but it's very much on people's minds. Coming to the beach in the winter in your bathing suit is not necessarily a comfortable experience for a lot of people. It's also part of the reason I'm doing it, Like I want that to change, you know, and I don't know if I have the power to change that, but I have the power to be an example to that.

Amy Hopkins:

So that's one piece. It's inviting and it's welcoming and it's authentically so Everyone there, you know if you're going to do something that extreme, you're really there for a reason. You are showing up on purpose and by your choice and you know like wow, I'm here to experience something that I think is really big and is apparently going to make me feel great. So the plunge and the rush and the jumping in and out, to me it's what you sort of see more of. It's more the advertised version, it's a little bit more the masculine version, and I mean that just in like a masculine, feminine energy, and it's not worse, it's just very different. So that is a piece that's very I would call maybe more American culture of like wow, that's a cool trend, I want a challenge, I can do that. I'm going to do something hard and then I'm going to be done with it. You know, or maybe, or maybe people stick with it. That's always a thing, but there's something about like this feats of strength, yeah finding a life hack.

Jen:

Yeah, doing it Exactly.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, whereas like this, to me, feels like this is my daily medicine, like this is my daily pill of joy, of community, of antidepressant and belonging, you know, which are just so key things to happiness. So I hope that I'm answering your question. I feel like there is this. They're two different animals and so what appeals, I think, and it's you know, the communities are not just for women, but I tend to always work with women and be around women, and women's health is my background. So I do think I attract women in that way and I also believe it's extremely primal and women and I'd say, you know, midlife is a weird word and it's a huge range. We don't know what the range is, but it's.

Amy Hopkins:

It attracts women, I think, as they're stepping into their power, and that's every woman in 2023. And that's every person as well. But it's. There's something happening with the, with the practice of walking in, that feels very like wow, we're a team, we're rising up together, we're here for way bigger purpose, but we don't even have to talk about it, you know. But there's this real underlying bonding, underlying knowledge that this is really important. Does that?

Jen:

make sense? Yeah, definitely, and I can definitely see how you would get. I mean this I think being especially by the ocean gives you a little bit of a internal kind of you could feel like an energy that you don't feel in other parts.

Amy Hopkins:

Absolutely.

Jen:

But I'm just yeah, I was just trying to trying to evoke kind of what that, what your community experience is like, like how, and maybe even just getting into the technical aspects of like how it unfolds when you're trying to get in, you know, as somebody who maybe can't envision getting in past their knees ever, because you know, soon like yeah. I'll try to go in slow, but then you know, anyone who's ever tried to walk in the water slow knows there's a couple of key places where, like it's hard to get over that hump.

Amy Hopkins:

So like what are you guys?

Jen:

doing together to get this Great question.

Amy Hopkins:

So the community dips are a little more casual. I don't put a lot of structure and leadership necessarily into a guided experience as much as I do maybe some of the sort of like experiences that people can pay for and sign up for. But that being said, absolutely so. We meet, we circle up, we just have a little bit of intention. I often go over like the ABCs of dipping really quickly. You know, want to always breathe. Breathing is really important. It's easy to not breathe and like the breathing is what shifts us from like this I can't do this to. Okay, I'm present and I can do this. The B is having a buddy. Especially in the winter, it's cold If the waves are present, it's just.

Amy Hopkins:

Safety is a huge concern of mine. So in the water I'm pretty conservative with staying in the shallowest parts when possible and you know, not doing anything crazy. I put air quotes around that because people would call this whole thing crazy and you know letting people know less is more. Not everyone should dip the same amount. We're talking, you know. Maybe you're in there for five seconds, maybe you're in there for 30 seconds, but if it's your first time you should not be in there for four minutes, you know. So there is an adaptation process that the body has to do. So you want it to be brief and usually, you know, I kind of liken it to supporting a woman during birth, because there is, the most important thing is just a presence. Like, for me, I want to be present with people as they go in. I believe that they already know how to do it and I think if they believe if they know someone believes they can do it, then they can do it. That being said, we chat. I might give them a little tip about dropping their shoulders as you exhale into the water. A little mantra for me is like what if this felt good? What if this cold? What if I'm just conditioned to think this is feeling bad? Like what if this was feeling really good? And it's a totally different vibe and a relaxation that occurs when I do that.

Amy Hopkins:

It's also exhilarating and it is a fun challenge to go those three inches, you know, over your belly button, like that's intense and often we hold hands. You know, sometimes we hold hands because it's so natural and it's kidlike, you know, I think you get in near the ocean, you get playful and you become a kid again, which is another cool piece of this and again, all these barriers, they go out the window, you know. And also we're holding hands because we're helping each other. That's what women do. They help each other over the wet, slippery rocks and then they help each other go in, because, oh yeah, last week was my first dip and I was so scared and now I'm going to help you in.

Amy Hopkins:

So there's this like you might not even know the person, but it's so easy and not uncomfortable I'm generalizing to hold hands with other people, you know, whereas in other settings it might be a little awkward, you know. So it feels like you're sort of carrying people over this threshold of just a little fear, and it should be fearful. It should be a little fearful because you're doing something that your body naturally wants to protect you from, you know. So it's these little bits of stress on the body, but you're doing it super mindfully, you're doing it with support and you're doing it with intention, and so when we walk in, there's sort of this okay, yeah, this is stressful, but a lot of things in my life are stressful, so how am I reacting? So it's a tool. It's a tool for ways to react in other areas of your life, and that has been the coolest thing to notice.

Jen:

Yeah, I was I'm curious about and I'm sure that some of this is kind of, you know, individual, but like what do you feel? Like I don't know if you can even put this into words, but you were talking about how it would make you feel better when you got out. And like, day after day and you would feel it when you stopped going in, like what is? What are the physical and maybe even you know the emotional or mental long tail effects when you get out? I mean, I would imagine at first you get out and there's this rush to get warm again, especially in the winter. But how does that evolve over the course of the day? Like, do you get really tired? Do you get? You know, yeah, yeah.

Amy Hopkins:

So like anything extreme to the body, you know an ideal situation is that you are nourished right, you're hydrated, you've eaten that day, you know you have a fairly healthy health history. You know if people have extreme blood pressure issues or health heart conditions. I always want to know about that beforehand because this this isn't for everybody, but I believe pieces of it are, are can be for everybody if they're interested. You know pieces of it. So it doesn't mean you go plunge necessarily, but how can cold exposure help you if you're interested in dipping in, you know.

Amy Hopkins:

So that's very individual, but in general, when you go into the cold water like that, there is your adrenaline and your noradrenaline, those catecholamines, those go up, they rise up and they are super active, they're pumped up and your nervous system is is high. Slowly, if you start to control your breath, what happens is your nervous system starts to shift into present and rest and relax mode and you start to realize you're safe. So the you know people ask what temperature should it be? You know it's like well, the research is clear to me and is stated wonderfully by some wonderful researchers that the temperature should be.

Jen:

You feel like, wow, this is uncomfortable but I feel safe, and that's an interesting line, yeah well, I would imagine yeah to your point, like the breath work probably plays into that, you know. I mean, if you can breathe into it, it will eventually train your body that you're safe, right Is that? Yes, the breath is, is everything. So you might start at 60 and you might end at 50, exactly, or something.

Amy Hopkins:

Exactly. And so you're really dealing with a chemical situation in the body right, like these. These catacombs have been released and then those cause the dopamine to release and so you get this reward pleasure situation happening and it actually there's a mood increase, and I will correct myself if I'm wrong here, but I believe it's like 250% increase in mood mood chemicals, and that has been likened to the same high as cocaine, except there's no crash. So it's it's a lingering several hours and so you literally feel like a million bucks and that's gonna make you want to do it again. Yeah, jail time.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, there there can be something called afterdrop where ultimately this does sort of lower the blood pressure, now hopefully, and most often in like a healthy way. But people, if you stay in too long or if it's too cold for you, or how do you warm up after? How do you not warm up after? How do you nourish yourself, you know, are you still scared? Are you dizzy, like all those things? We don't see a lot of that, fortunately, but that is real. So we just try to prevent that from even happening, so that that's something that can happen. But it's what keeps people coming back, I think, is like the exhilaration and the high that feels so natural. And it's not just, I mean, it's clearly the chemicals in the body, but there is, you start to realize, oh, the power of the ocean and the salt water and the rhythm and the waves, and there is something. So you know, even just being buoyant, you're being held. I mean it's like a ridiculous amount of support, people around you and then the water holding you and this feeling of like, and you were just saying like you must want to warm up, right when you get out.

Amy Hopkins:

And what is so surprising is, you know, february dips, you think like, oh, we're just running to our car. If it's really windy, we're running to our car, but it can be really, really cold, not too bad with the wind. And you get out and you are shocked at how, you know, the body's warming itself immediately because it wants to balance right. We want to maintain homeostasis, so the body is doing everything it can to try to keep you warm and so you do get a little warming effect. But it is important to move the body. So, warming up from the inside out, yes, we go to our warm cars and we drink our warm tea, and those are all really important things to do, throw on our robes and whatnot, but moving and the energy of being together and coming out of the ocean excited and everyone I believe everyone would tell you that comes to these dips.

Amy Hopkins:

I never regret a dip. I mean you just you know you can feel like kind of blah in your day. You go and you get this burst, you know that is. And dipping alone we don't recommend dipping alone in the cold water. It is a completely different experience. You know, even if you're dipping alone safely, there's people by you, people know where you are. It is a very different experience. So I think a lot of this is really the part we can't put into words. Is the people that you're doing this with. It's unspoken, you know. It's like you feel, like you know each other really deeply, even if you don't.

Jen:

Yeah, well, you, you definitely know they share a crazy gene with you. So, exactly, I shouldn't use that terminology. But you know what I? Mean yeah well, I think I'm appealed, I find this appealing or interesting, and you'll find this, yeah, so we have that in common.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, and you know a little, you know, and a little plug for the outdoors. I mean, you can't argue with the fact that it it's so much better than the cold shower. You know a lot of people will take cold showers is a great way to get a lot of the physical benefits from the cold in your body, but it's hard for me. Cold showers are really hard for me because it's a cold shower. You know it's like again, we're conditioned to somewhere that has the option for a hot shower.

Amy Hopkins:

Exactly. Why am I doing this? That's right, and you can control the knob, you know. And you can't control the knob on the ocean, but you can control your breath. And it's funny, when I'm in the shower, I'm much more apt to control the knob than my breath, you know. So it's like, oh, we can be put into a position where we we have to use our breath. That is the best life lesson we could possibly get.

Jen:

Yeah, so, and you breathe, the breathing is the goal. To kind of the goal is kind of to slow it down, I would imagine right, because you know, I can hold. Yeah, I was immediately thinking of times when I'm in it, certainly stuck in a cold shower because, you know, for whatever reason, the hot water isn't working but you really need to get clean. But it's like those are the times that I'm basically hyperventilating. I'm just like, like yeah exactly, and that's kind of like when I try to go really cold water.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, yeah, inhaling through the nose and exhaling through the mouth, that you know gets you right into that parasympathetic nervous system, which is that rest meditative state where you can.

Jen:

Yeah. So people like me that are just freaks about water and cold and the combination of such, how many times do you find they need to go and do this before they start to kind of hit their stride and be a little bit better is a wrong, the wrong word to use. But like yeah comes like something. You know, if you, if you continue to go because you're kind of committed to trying to make this work for you, yeah, and obviously there must be something positive that comes out of it, or else you wouldn't keep going. But like, at what point do the real freaks like me start being like okay, like this is under control, yeah, I would say to put a number on it three times.

Amy Hopkins:

I think, honestly, the people that have joined our dips once, they usually come right back. It's usually like an instant comeback, but that's not true for everybody and I think some people their first dip is the coldest, windiest dip of the year and I tell them come back, if you came today, you can do anything Right. And there's something I just believe magical about the number three, because the first time you're just where is it? Where is this place? Who are these people? It can be intimidating. I mean, I strive for that never to be a word that people feel coming to these, but I know there is so much new to it.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, there's so much new. It's like am I doing it right? Am I wearing the right thing? Am I showing? Am I parking in the right place? Is this the right? So there's a lot of petty stuff that first time, Second time, right.

Jen:

You're a little bit like all right, I know you could use more of your brain space on the actual experience.

Amy Hopkins:

Right, oh, I didn't know it was going to be that cold, so maybe I will bring my gloves and I will wear my booties. So second time is like OK, but the third time is sort of like I think you're actually in the experience, you're having your experience in an ideal situation.

Jen:

Yeah, that makes such good sense, so I love it. So tell us, tell me, about the retreat part of what it is you're doing and where you're hoping that's going to go and what those experiences are like. So let's dive in a little bit more to all the other aspects of your business, because it's obviously the community dip. You can kind of dip your toe into what it is that you offer, but there's a lot of other stuff that you can get involved in, so let's talk a little bit about that.

Amy Hopkins:

So I love incorporating my massage and my yoga so I don't sort of not losing that entirely. That's sort of a piece of me. So one thing I'm offering is little dip experiences. So those, especially in the summer, it's nice because they can be on the beach. But we do my yoga class May or may not have a theme associated with it.

Amy Hopkins:

Certainly perimenopause is a huge in women's health, is a huge theme that I'm about to enter into professionally and personally, so that feels like a big one coming up. But it's just, my classes are sort of very intuitive and sort of sensual, just about feeling and restorative and being in your body, being embodied. And then we do a yoga type of class. Maybe there's some hands on touch and then a dip to follow. So the dip is always sort of at the end to seal everything in, to be a well-rounded experience around why we're doing this, talking about the mission, so what are your superpowers as a woman, and instead of all the shit, what's the good stuff and talking highly about ourselves. That's really important for me to encourage that in women. So that's an offering and then I take those. They could be a three-hour experience or that could be a three-day experience at a cabin on a lake, for example.

Amy Hopkins:

We went cross-country this summer to sort of spread the brand in places that I love and the mountain part of this is sort of named after Colorado because that's another one of my loves and there's a lot of wonderful cold water in the mountains.

Amy Hopkins:

So took this to kind of meet some other dipping groups along the way that we've met over social media and connect with them personally and just around this practice we have some merch that we've kind of put our brand on and that's gonna also grow. The dip experiences out there were amazing because sort of kind of hooking up with the mental health organizations locally. So I'm kind of playing with that, with how to get involved in obviously supporting having the people that are signed up for the dip event aware of what the mental health services are in their community. National Alliance for Mental Illness is one that I'm particularly working with and then that sort of has stemmed into huh, can we do this for groups of young women and men that are struggling that this, what populations could this help with? What populations is this not appropriate for? So I'm kind of doing some research on that and then hooking up with retreat centers, one in the mid-coast main in particular and gonna be and I do dipping events during their weekend women retreats.

Jen:

Yeah, sarah's actually from my area originally, or well, she isn't, she's from Maine, but then she lived in Newport for a long time, so I have friends who know her pretty well. So, yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, it's such a beautiful spot that they're at.

Amy Hopkins:

It's a magical place, so grateful to be connected with them, and we're talking about the Topsil Farm.

Jen:

Petite Pauses, so all we can talk about yes, Topsil Farm.

Amy Hopkins:

Petite Pauses.

Jen:

I think either one or two left this season maybe.

Amy Hopkins:

Yes, yep, I think hers is the last one in October, there's a couple in September and then ours is the last weekend in October. I think there are a few spots left.

Jen:

And they are on a tidal river right. So, yeah, yeah, on the Dominic River, yep.

Amy Hopkins:

And so we kind of have to play with the tides and it's kind of cool because it's a very raw bottom and you get really in the nature part of it, in such a beautiful scenery there and whole vibe of the farm, so cool.

Amy Hopkins:

So those retreats are gonna continue. We're actually planning the 2024 ones now and I have a plan to go to Iceland in May just to kind of scope out some dipping spots there, and one of my favorite things is just to go places and meet people that do this and see what can come out of it. So this feels the business is still in its infancy in some ways and I'm someone who likes to really kind of go for it and go all out and I have really appreciated staying steady, staying kind of steady and feeling out different avenues. I love doing these four businesses. So, like staff bonding or team building, retreats are really cool just because often they're looking for creative things that are really different and there's a conference that main outdoor brands is putting on at the SAMHSA in November and so I'll be doing that and we're trying to plan a dip event there during that and possibly a talk as well, yep, that's cool.

Jen:

That was a great event. I went to the one last year and SAMHSA's a little far because last year it was in Portland, but it is a great event. So that's awesome that you're doing something here. Oh, that's so great to hear.

Amy Hopkins:

I'm not surprised. Yeah, such good people. So that is. There's a lot of different little. I always have a lot of irons in the fire and I sort of am doing this and it's feeling really good. There's a company dryrobe that we have ordered and branded our dipping robes.

Jen:

Yeah, I noticed that and that's cool because that seems like that's kind of a key component, and I think that would be something that would stop a lot of people in their tracks of like oh, how am I gonna get warm after? And like this looks intimidating to me, what do I get?

Amy Hopkins:

There's so many products, yes, and now you're just like here you go and, by the way, yes, and so much learning, right, when you're doing this, it's like what? And you don't wanna be messing with stuff Like the less messing the better. And so I leave my house in a bathing suit, booties and robe. I dip and I come back in the bathing suit, booties and robe. I don't change in the parking lot, I don't have to take booties on and off. That has been a dream. Now I'm pretty lucky to live just a few miles, you know, on my dipping spot, but I've learned a lot about what to wear and what not to wear. Yeah, I bet that is pretty key and I love. You know people love to buy merch and people love, but I want it to be something. You know you wanna wear, something that you feel really good wearing in all the ways, like wow, this is doing the job. But it also is like, yeah, I'm proud to wear this because this has made me feel really good. You know, this is something I really believe in.

Jen:

Yeah, I will say, the dry robe looks like it could be used almost like a comfy around the campfire too. You just don't wanna get close to the ashes.

Amy Hopkins:

Oh, I've got to tell you that. You are absolutely right. So I think anyone that lives in this New England right, or other places too, they're like oh, I could wear that, you know, and also I've worn it in the summer, I mean in Maine. You just don't know what you're gonna get. It's like the ultimate raincoat. It's the ultimate walk your dog when you don't feel like putting more clothes on or whatever. It's the ultimate campfire, right, when you don't have a blanket or whatever. So it is like this wow, this is an all purpose, this is an all purpose robe.

Jen:

Yeah full coverage too. I mean it looks good, all right. Well, this has been awesome. I'm like super excited and I just I talk about doing this all the time. I did attempt to go after I talked to the mermaids, I drove with a friend of mine and our daughters up to Portland one night to do it and as we got off the highway, a thunderstorm rolled in and it was like lightning and like all kinds of crazy as weather. So they're like, yeah, we can't do it. And we're like, okay, we made flower wreaths. It was very fun, but I did not actually get to do my oh, water dip after all that, and so I'm like I live, you know whatever, three miles from the ocean myself.

Jen:

And I and I'm not even that far from you guys so I gotta come up there and just like get it done. You will, because I feel like it's something that would really, but it's good to know you gotta give it three times at least.

Amy Hopkins:

I really believe that I can see that and I just think you know just the fact that you think about it a lot, it says a lot and it means to me, or says to me, that you will do it and when you do. It is not as important, I think, is the fact that you probably will have an amazing experience.

Jen:

Yeah, I think it'll be good and even just I feel like it'll help my focus and other aspects of my life where it is very much wanting right now. Yes, between just my squirrel brain and menopause whatever the hell I'm going through now I'm just like I cannot keep a thought going.

Amy Hopkins:

Can't keep a thought going, and I think that has to be talked about more, because we're just, you know, we can't fake it till we make it forever. I mean, it's gonna be like some real you know.

Jen:

Yep, I don't know what the word is I'm thinking of and yep, I need a break, and yep you know, and if I can't find my way into meditation, I think this will be the next best thing. It'll be like a physical, a more physical way to, because every once in a while you get to it when you're like on a nice long trail or a nice long bike ride, you're just taking it easy and you're like okay, I'm in the moment, but I need more practice with that, and this seems like you got to get there faster than on a bike or else you'll go like, right, you're gonna get right to it.

Amy Hopkins:

You know it doesn't. There's no wasting time, there's no, and I will say it is a meditation. It is a meditation and I think, the most you know there's too many of my favorite things about it, but I think a lot of dippers would agree that maybe my favorite thing is that I cannot think about anything else, and I think that's why I don't love the warmer water so much is because it doesn't do what I know the cold can do, so I'm just missing it. So that presence, I mean I can't even. I've never gotten there in my deepest relaxation practices anywhere close. You know it's like you cannot, your brain cannot be multitasking, and that, to me, is the biggest gift of all.

Jen:

It's fascinating because that is very much the same thing that I talked a long time ago, early on Bonnie holding, I think, who works with casting for recovery, and that's why they take cancer treatment, survivor people, women, out to flyfish, because when you're learning to flyfish, you are, you have, you have to be in that state, that flow state, and you just get there and it just wipes everything out. You know for that for some short period of time, and so that's, that's awesome. I think that's a really legitimate reason to underdate it.

Jen:

Exactly, that's exactly. That's great. All right, well, I'm gonna. So it's saltwatermountaincocom. Beforei asked you my final question. Thank you, and at dip down to rise up on Instagram. I saw you have a TikTok. I didn't look yet because of course I don't. I can't go there because my scroll screen can't take it, but I'm yeah, well, well, you're again there. Yeah, a few more dips to get back you know yeah, yeah, well, it seems like this would be good content. You know screeching and exactly yeah and quick.

Amy Hopkins:

Exactly, yeah, I like to let it linger, which TikTok doesn't love that. So I yeah, it's a little issue, but yeah, anyways, to connect, I love and I am for it. So, and I think, for your time, and your and don't.

Jen:

Don't know. We're not done yet, because I need to ask you. My last question, which I try to ask everybody when I remember, is what's your favorite piece of outdoor gear or most useful that you have that cost you less than $50? Oh my booties.

Amy Hopkins:

My theoprene zip up, do you?

Jen:

have a brand that you like or anything, because those seem like they would be key to to the success.

Amy Hopkins:

Well, I have a lot of thoughts on that.

Jen:

Um, you don't need to share it if you don't want to know I love sharing it.

Amy Hopkins:

Ulex is the eco friendly rubber, so I would prefer to use just Ulex. I need to research a little more. My first booties were they were Patagonia brand Ulex, but they were not zip up and at the time I couldn't find that brand with zip up, so which became actually a pretty serious issue. They really need to be for me and a lot of people agree with that the easy on, easy off, right, right, especially if you're doing this every day. So Cressy C R E S S, I is an Italian company and it's a great price point and it's a great go to for a solid booty. And you want to be thick? Yeah, like seven millimeters at least. Yeah, okay, all right cool.

Jen:

Yeah is a good one. That is a very good one. Total sidebar. People with rainos how do you do you have anything that you recommend for them? Because that's become more of a factor as I get older and it like concerns me a little bit, but I'm like it seems like something that would just be. I get halfway home and like my hands would be like yes, I'll wipe.

Amy Hopkins:

Yeah, it's a real issue. I actually did an Instagram post on that and I actually just yesterday reposted it on my story because, all right, I'm gonna have to get on get on, that I get on that it's.

Amy Hopkins:

It's a complicated thing, rainos, and it's there could be. You know, if there's underlying without giving medical advice here, there's there can be underlying autoimmune disorder things going on, and there might also not be. So sometimes it just occurs and it can be annoying and painful. And I have some. I haven't experienced it much. I have experienced some really cold hands in the past. It's been scary and so I will not, when the, when the waters get colder, will not go in without either, like some seriously warm ski gloves and I just keep my hands out of the water, or the neoprene gloves. They're absolutely essential, but I think if you rainos, they're, they're way more, even just that much more essential.

Amy Hopkins:

But sometimes people still get problems even wearing those, just being in the cold. So I think, again, it's testing the waters. It's like, if you really want to do this and you, you know, consult with your trusted provider on this is not a practice to see how white my hands can get, you know, this is just. You know, I'm going to keep them warm and I'm going to do a little bit of breathing, a little bit of practice for the rest of my body. Definitely wear the booties, that's not even a question and then I'm going to get out. And if it's, I've heard both. I've heard some people say, wow, it really helps just with circulation in general, so they find that it certainly isn't hurting their rainos. And then I've heard some people be like, well, some days it's just, it's just bad.

Jen:

But you know, I like the benefits so much that I'm going to kind of yeah yeah, and for me I think it would be almost be the after effect, because it's like I find that it happens like after I do something where I get sweaty in the winter and then later I'm in my house where I'm not even that cold, but like that's when I start to, when my body starts cooling down, it's like then my hands are all messed up, yes, but I have a fuzzy steering wheel for my ride home, so I'm good there.

Amy Hopkins:

Oh, I have it, yes, it's so cheesy.

Jen:

But it works.

Amy Hopkins:

Warm hands is so key, but really warming up and moving them, you know, you just don't want to be tricked. Sometimes people think, oh, I'm going to put my freezing hand right on the heat, and if it's not gradual or natural, it can trick your body into thinking it's hot, which will keep it colder longer. So just keep that in mind. The movement, the getting the blood moving, is number one.

Jen:

And even just hearing the fact that, like, okay, don't put your head and hands in the water, dummy, like that's just like simple stuff that I'd be like, oh well, I'm going, so I have to, you know, go under. No, you don't, no, and that's a great point.

Amy Hopkins:

I rarely go under these days, you know, compared to what I used to do, or you know, it can feel amazing to do that, so it's kind of like a special treat. But there's no one says you need to do that. Even the research it's like up to here, you know, up to your neck, you there's. You know, submerging. Is this a different ball game? And we don't want to be holding our breath when we're doing this, you know. So you're breathing out if you're going under, but and there's nothing quote unquote wrong with it, it's just take it slowly and mindfully and keep your head and hands out while you're getting used to it. I would say yeah.

Jen:

Yeah, good, that's good. Those are good pro tips. My drop blown. Wants to end this on. So all right awesome Amy. This has been awesome. I'm so excited now. It did cool me off a little bit, I think. Good Talking about being cold like that, yes, and hopefully we'll get some thunderstorms later and break the rest of this heat. So and I'm excited, now I'm gonna double down on Trish and we're gonna get there and join, join the dip soon, because that's fun.

Jen:

Yeah, I can't wait in person now that we can actually meet in person. So it's time to get on.

Amy Hopkins:

Time to connect and just keep connecting. That's just what I want to do. So, Jen, I appreciate what you're you're doing so much Well thank you, it's good.

Jen:

I love I just love meeting new people. It's been slow lately and hard to keep at it, you know, it's just it's been a long time, but I do. It is like the high point of my day, week, month, whenever it is that I have a new conversation. So I'm happy, so happy, to spread the word on this and I think it'll be, and I'm excited to insert myself into yet another new community and start having some fun up in up in New York. So thank you again.

Amy Hopkins:

Thank you so much.

Jen:

Who's ready to join me for some water based panic attack turn meditation practicing? Make sure to follow Amy's Instagram page at dip down to rise up for her schedule of community dips, and be sure to check out the saltwatermountaincocom website for more information on retreat offerings and all the other fun ways Amy is blending her loves of cold water, yoga, body work and more into uplifting experiences for her growing community. And, of course, grab a super cozy saltwater Mountain Co dry rope or some other fun merch from her online store. While you're there, check out the show notes for all the links to Amy, plus other fun stuff we mentioned in this episode.

Jen:

And if you're feeling a little more inspired than you were an hour ago, I hope you'll make sure to share this conversation and the guides gone wild podcast with that person in your life who could use a little dipping down and rising up. That's it for now. Thanks for being part of the guides gone wild community. I hope you'll join me again next time and in the meantime, you know the drill whether you're ready to wait in deep or are just starting to think about laying on that little towel in the sand, it doesn't matter. Just get outside and keep getting a little wild.