Today we take a scenic ride through the intricacies of trail development, where the rubber meets the road in terms of community building, advocacy, grant writing, marketing... and bike riding!
Marianne Borowski is the absolute force of nature behind the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail.
For those of you who haven’t yet heard of it, the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail is an 83 mile long multi-purpose trail that spans northern New Hampshire, from Woodsville on the Vermont border to Bethel, Maine.
The Adventure Trail patches together pre-existing rail trails, bike paths, dirt roads and a few short pavement segments to create a fluid tour of the north country great for biking, hiking, cross country skiing, horseback riding, you name it - if it’s non-motorized, you’re probably good to go on this fantastic trail. AND you can get amazing support along the way, thanks to the countless resources available on the xNHAT.org website.
Such well-documented, well-thought-out trail networks don’t just magically appear out of the ether - there is always at least one extremely passionate advocate working behind the curtains to make their vision a reality for the rest of us to enjoy.
Marianne is just such a passionate, action-oriented visionary, and she was kind enough to invite me up to her hill-top perch in Bartlett to talk all things trail. I loved every minute of our conversation, so I’m sharing them all!
Head on over to xNHAT.org to get all the details about the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail, including links to the Story Map, the GPS links, even how to get your very own copy of the OG waterproof paper map, so you can start planning your own Cross New Hampshire Adventure! And if anyone is interested in joining Trish and me on the ride later this summer/fall, shoot me an email - guidesgonewildpodcast@gmail.com - who knows, maybe we can do a whole group thing! That would be SO FUN!
In the meantime, more great links from our conversation:
Today we take a scenic ride through the intricacies of trail development, where the rubber meets the road in terms of community building, advocacy, grant writing, marketing... and bike riding!
Marianne Borowski is the absolute force of nature behind the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail.
For those of you who haven’t yet heard of it, the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail is an 83 mile long multi-purpose trail that spans northern New Hampshire, from Woodsville on the Vermont border to Bethel, Maine.
The Adventure Trail patches together pre-existing rail trails, bike paths, dirt roads and a few short pavement segments to create a fluid tour of the north country great for biking, hiking, cross country skiing, horseback riding, you name it - if it’s non-motorized, you’re probably good to go on this fantastic trail. AND you can get amazing support along the way, thanks to the countless resources available on the xNHAT.org website.
Such well-documented, well-thought-out trail networks don’t just magically appear out of the ether - there is always at least one extremely passionate advocate working behind the curtains to make their vision a reality for the rest of us to enjoy.
Marianne is just such a passionate, action-oriented visionary, and she was kind enough to invite me up to her hill-top perch in Bartlett to talk all things trail. I loved every minute of our conversation, so I’m sharing them all!
Head on over to xNHAT.org to get all the details about the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail, including links to the Story Map, the GPS links, even how to get your very own copy of the OG waterproof paper map, so you can start planning your own Cross New Hampshire Adventure! And if anyone is interested in joining Trish and me on the ride later this summer/fall, shoot me an email - guidesgonewildpodcast@gmail.com - who knows, maybe we can do a whole group thing! That would be SO FUN!
In the meantime, more great links from our conversation:
Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild.
Jen:Hey, all welcome, or welcome back to Guides Gone Wild. This is your host, jen. With an extra special treat, I'm bringing you a live in-person interview with Marianne Borowski, the absolute force of nature behind the Cross New Hampshire Adventure Trail. For those of you who haven't yet heard of it, I'll fill you in on the basics of the Cross New Hampshire. It's an 83-mile-long multi-purpose trail that spans Northern New Hampshire from Woodsville on the Vermont border to Bethel, Maine. The Adventure Trail patches together pre-existing rail trails, bike paths, dirt roads and a few short pavement sections to create a fluid tour of the North Country. Great for biking, hiking, cross-country skiing, horseback riding, you name it. If it's non-motorized, you're probably good to go on this fantastic trail and you can get amazing support along the way thanks to the countless resources available on the XNHATorg website.
Jen:Such well-documented, well-thought-out trail networks don't just magically appear out of the ether. There is always at least one extremely passionate advocate, wizard of Ozzing behind this curtains to make their vision a reality for the rest of us to enjoy. And yes, you're welcome for me not extending that analogy to like Yellowbrook Road comments or anything like that. Anyway, today we are talking to one of those passionate visionaries, marianne Borowski. Marianne was kind enough to invite me up to her hilltop perch in Bartlett, new Hampshire, to talk all things trail, and I loved every minute of our conversation, so I'm sharing them all. Quick apologies before we start. I was using some portable equipment and, as you can probably hear, I've been fighting a super annoying cough congestion thing since, like January. I've tried to clean up the audio as much as I can, but it's pretty far from 100% fixed. Then again, one of the lessons, marianne and Parts, is about imperfect starting and action over perfection. So it is what it is and so, without further delay, let's hear all about the Cross New Hampshire adventure trail from its founder, marianne Borowski.
Jen:Today we are talking about the Cross New Hampshire adventure trail. I noticed your license plate when I pulled in XNH-AT. Yes, that's awesome. So today I am welcoming to the Guides Got Well podcast, marianne Borowski, who I've only corresponded with until today over email about the fabulous Cross New Hampshire adventure trail, that you're essentially the person who pulled everything together because you needed something to do in your spare time. So I want to hear all about this today, because the Cross New Hampshire adventure trail goes from Woodsville on the Vermont-New Hampshire border across kind of the northern part of the state through some beautiful, beautiful landscapes and actually ends in Bethel Maine, right down the street from Gileadware, our places.
Jen:So that was what I think prompted us to first chat was about how maybe we could support the Cross New Hampshire adventurers when you were getting this trail off the ground. But the trail now has a very robust website, gps, like you can get Q sheets, you can download it so that you get the term by turn, all this stuff and there's basically one person who's done all this. So that's who I'm talking to today and I am super excited. So, marianne, you're obviously a big biker, so let's take it back before, way before there was the Cross New Hampshire trail, you got on a bike. Why and why did you like it so much?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I just love being on my bike because I like to explore with my bike. I like it for the exercise but I really like to go places with it and I enjoy the camaraderie with riding with other people, other friends. And I enjoy the whole technology of the bikes too and how they were maintaining them and keeping them clean and running really well. I just enjoy all that. And I really enjoy maps. To look at a map to me is just looking at all these possible adventures that I can do. Where can I go? What can I do? And I can, of course, accomplish quite a bit of it on a bicycle. I essentially spend all of my vacation budget every year to go off on bicycle, sometimes on skis too, for multi-day types of trips.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:There are a number of these long distance bike trails and rail trails around the country and they lend themselves to multi-day adventures.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You start at one end and every day you just wake up and keep going and you enjoy the scenery, enjoy the little towns along the way, eating all the different food and meeting people. I think you meet people more often when you're riding on a bike and traveling than you would in a car, because when you're traveling in a car, you are a car. The car went by right. But if you're on a bicycle, you're a person on a bicycle and you're more likely to chat with someone who's taking a walk or taking a dog out or sitting on their porch. So I've just found it to be more of a feeling of being in a certain area, learning about that area, smelling the smells of the fields and the farms and the bakeries and everything along the way, which is some of the things you don't get in the car. So I really like that. So my to-do list is all these long-distance, mostly rail trails across the country, whether the Katie Trail across most of Missouri, the Erie Canal Trail across New York.
Jen:But let me interrupt you for a sec when you first started doing these, because it's one thing to ride a bike. It's another thing to think, oh, I'm going to ride a bike for multiple days in a row and camp or stay at a place or whatever. Make it more of an embedded experience for a vacation. Did you first start doing that with a group or on a tour company, or what kind of got you over the hump from? Oh, I like to bike too. Oh, this is a whole new thing that I'm going to do for all my vacations from now on.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I retired early and I signed up to ride cross country Just because, just because you know, when you're working every day, you're kind of anchored and you look at all these different possibilities and you see, oh my gosh, people go off for weeks, whether it's camping or exploring, hiking, biking and all of that, and it just was kind of a dream to go off and I really hadn't done anything like that before, right? So I was going to ask about that.
Jen:So like, okay, so also a totally awesome undertaking. But just did you? You retired early, how long before you started this bike trip, and what did your butt feel like the first seven days in a row?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, I retired in March and the ride started in June and I managed to get about 500 miles of riding in. So I got the butt issues over with, but I didn't really get all the fatigue issues over with, because we were riding about 75 miles a day, wow, and I wasn't doing that in my preparation, but I was doing 20, 30, 40, you know all of that. So the first week of that, including our century ride, I was pretty shocked, oh yeah.
Jen:Especially day in, day out, not knowing how you're going to recover and stuff.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Right, you get one day off and you're limping around. But we all did that, and dinner time conversation was about the various aches and pains and how you're dealing with the wrist and how you're dealing with the back and how you're dealing with the butt and all those different things. But we got through it. And again, for me to just wake up every day and just, you know, get on the bike and keep going east was a real thrill to be able to do that, and so I I guess I jumped into it.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yes, you went from zero to 60, obviously, or zero to 100 a day, pretty much, and it could have gone either way that I'd say, okay, that's it, I'm never doing this again, I've had it done, finished, try something else. But I was totally hooked and as soon as I finished that trip I wanted to do more, and so I did over the years. You know, like I was saying, the Erie Canal trail and the CNO gap, and around the country in different places and riding bike route systems as much as I could, and so I know your next question is going to be well, so how, you know, how, did the big across New Hampshire come out of all of this?
Jen:That. Yeah, I guess it could be, but I'm also just, I'm just curious. I just love this whole biking thing. So when you first started doing this so I assume you mostly rode bike or like did you have a whole quiver? Do you do all the biking all the time Like what's your preferred bike?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I guess there's a quiver because you know, living here in the northern part of New Hampshire, the hiking is fabulous and so is the kayaking. Even taking a walk is really nice, yeah, so winter cross-cunders skiing and alpine skiing and snowshoeing and microspiking and all of that.
Jen:So we're even above and beyond biking, you do a bit of different things.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And there's a great community of friends up here who all enjoy doing that. So it's very easy to head out there with friends or head out by yourself, you know. But sometimes, and you want to go, you know, if you go in a little deeper into the woods or a little further away, it's good to travel with others and we all have, you know, like-minded. You know, let's go get it, yeah, and let's enjoy. And let's, you know, summit that mountain, do you?
Jen:ride right from here. Well right from my house. I have to explain that Marion lives at the kind of at the top of a very long and windy beautiful road.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, but it is a climb to get up here, so I'd have an e-bike at a shed at the bottom. That would be probably a better idea. I have not climbed this much recently because it's just, it's at the end of a ride. It's a little bit much, so I've decided that I've done it enough and I take my car and drive to a trailhead or a parking lot and ride from there. That makes sense.
Jen:Now are you riding mostly like now there's gravel bikes or like what has kind of your preferred biking?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, I used to ride roads a lot and I have to admit that I'm not as excited to ride roads much anymore, and I'd say that's probably one of the reasons for the Creston Hampshire. Yeah, they're just busier, they're faster. A distracted drivers.
Jen:I was going to say, now that phones are in play, it's just like a whole thing.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I've had friends with issues out there on the road and you know, when you've got kind of one eye looking ahead and one in the mirror kind of looking back and making sure that the truck or the car sees you it's if you have to get from point A to B, that's one thing, but if you're out there for enjoyment, I much more prefer to be on a trail, a rail trail, a dirt road, some of these quiet back roads that we have, some around here. So I like to put together routes that include that and be off the main roads or the busier roads as much as possible. It may not be possible to do the entire route Right. No-transcript.
Jen:And mountain biking.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Have you ever done that or has it not been a journey I have, but I have to admit I'm not skilled enough to be a technical mountain biker to deal with the rocks and roots that we have here. So something that's fairly easy I will enjoy. And I do have a mountain bike, but I cannot really call myself a mountain biker compared to some of my friends who really can ride anything.
Jen:Yeah, yeah yeah, well, okay. So gravel biker, yeah, mostly gravel biker. Now it sounds like okay. So let's get into the Cross, new Hampshire Trail, because you were tooting along, you were like what a biochemist or something. Right. A very sophisticated, crazy job. Took an early retirement, went on your. How long did it take you to go cross the road?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Nine weeks, nine weeks. Yeah, we did the scenic route. It wasn't a race across the country. Still we had all the national parks and everything.
Jen:Oh my God, here's my question. Was it nice the first like five days? Oh yeah, I feel like the weather is such a factor in weather. I'm such a pussy about being wet for doing after that.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:We had it was 2002 and it was a huge drought across the country which was really bad for the crops and the cattle, the farmers, especially the upper Midwest. It was a serious drought, but for us riding, we didn't have to deal with being wet, we had to deal with being hot, too hot, yeah so, and we worked around that. So if we had weather's issues, it was the heat, not the rain.
Jen:Yeah, yeah, I would imagine the heat and just trying to keep the sun off yourself. So you?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:leave it 430 in the morning, you know, trying to get a good chunky ride in before it got too hot in the afternoon, oh yeah.
Jen:Wow, nine weeks, holy cow. I mean that's like yeah that's almost like doing the AT. Yeah, that's a long time.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, you know the AT was a possibility. I had thought about that, but I would need to know a lot more about planning for that hike and I didn't really have the time because here I was retiring in March. I would have had to been pretty much ready to go at that point, whereas to go on this it was a supported camping tour. I basically called up and gave a credit card, so that's pretty sweet, and then trained.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, trained, yeah, trained. I bought a bike that would be suitable for that kind of riding, and so it really. It was to me. In my mind, it was the easier choice, and then I thought, well, I can maybe do a hiking trip another time. Yeah, think about the.
Jen:AT maybe. So at this point, how long does it take you to change your flat? Change your flat? Yeah, oh, not very long at all. What's? Your speed record yeah.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You know, I never measured it.
Jen:Yeah, but.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I'm pretty good at it, actually, because I've done it a lot, because I was going to say, nine weeks on your bike.
Jen:that must have come up quite a bit. Oh really, yeah, oh my gosh. That's amazing, and later on in the trip too. Oh cool, yeah, that's great. Oh my gosh. See, these are all the things I think about when I think about that stuff. Oh my gosh, because anytime my husband and I will go biking. He, thankfully, most of the time has been with me when I've had those issues, but it's always like the buggiest time of year where you don't want to, you know.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Oh, absolutely, and you just sit there like and that's another reason why I have a friend so that, as you're changing it, they can at least be swatting away all of mosquitoes, like they're not running away into the bushes like I do.
Jen:All right, so let's get on to the New York Cross, new Hampshire Trail. So you had obviously been dipping your toe in other long distance trails and so I know you had done the Cross Vermont Trail. Is that where the idea came from, right?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, probably just before that I was thinking we needed something along that line here in New Hampshire. You know everybody's going all over the place. I'm traveling, I'm spending all my vacation money everywhere else and our scenery here and our little towns and amenities and everything are here are just as nice, if not nicer, than a lot of other places across the whole country. We could utilize this, and you know again all my cycling friends who kind of share the same idea, and there's a lot of us out there. I thought they might really enjoy coming over here to see what we have in New Hampshire. So I thought, okay, how can I put something like this together? And I heard about the Cross Vermont Trail. They'd been working on that for quite a while. Their idea was to be as off-road as possible, to be able to ride from the Connecticut River across the state over to Burlington and use rail trails, recreation paths, whatever it takes, and then if they didn't have one, they'd plan on making one but then have to use a road in the meantime. So they made a patchwork quilt and theirs is about 92 miles 91 miles and goes from Burlington and through Montpelier and ends in Wells River. So I had done most of it and I've been over there for some of their fundraiser rides and things.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And I asked the board what about taking it into New Hampshire? Is anybody thinking about doing that? And they said, well, we're really busy, really really busy. So we hadn't really thought about it. But the worst thing that you see when you're on a bike is a bike route end sign and we would be so glad to be able to just keep this going. And why don't you do it? And I said okay. And then they provided me some assistance too, some guidance, because they'd been working on it for years. So I basically copied a lot of their ideas and I know the roads and the trails and everything. So I sketched it out, I used the Ridewood GPS, put it all together, created the map and then created the website. I put down on the website places that you could stay campgrounds, motels, luxury you know grand hotels and classic hotels, motel you know, whatever Hip camps now, and places to eat, because it's always nice to know.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You look at a map or you read about okay, how many miles do I need to go to? And you go 30 miles. I better take some food with me, some water, you know, or is there going to be some place for me to stop along the way? So I tried to put that all together and I put it out there and it worked. People right away started to be interested in this, because I think the whole idea of being on back roads and being off road using the rail trails was a good idea. I put the word adventure in it. So it's, you know, cross-ramont Trail, but it's Cross-N-Hampshire Adventure Trail. I put the word adventure in because I knew that some of it it wasn't a smooth rail trail. It might not be a smooth, perfect road. There's one unmaintained Class 6 road that doesn't get any attention unless it's needed by a logging company or the power company needs to get in there or something. But if it's a wreck they don't care about it, so it's adventure.
Jen:We did the stretch between Gilead and Gorham and even just that road in Shelburne.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:That's it.
Jen:Yeah, it had a big wash out and they're like all right, see, get off. But we saw a porcupine. It was pretty damn cool, Right, you might see bear, you might see moose.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Right, right, you see Osprey, because there's a nest right up there and they just go crazy when people walk by or ride a bike and eagles. And so my thought was you know, just get off your bike and walk it through and hop back on. The scenery is so pretty and you're right there by the river that enjoy the adventure, yeah yeah, and we have actually had.
Jen:We had one person that stayed with us who walked it and, you know, left her car there. I think she took a week, and so I'm just yeah, and you are, you're going to pass ATVs, you're going to pass other people, carriages, whatever, I mean, depending on what part of the trail you're on, right, right and some of the rail trails.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:they're not, you know, smooth, perfect surface. So you need a wider tire bike. It doesn't have to be official gravel bike, just a bike that has a wider tire to be able to deal with some of the softer, sandier parts, some rocky parts, some ballast rock. You know, there might have been a wash out here and there. It might have been fixed a little bit, but it might be a little rough. And so there's your adventure again. A road bike would be no fun on it at all. Yeah, definitely not. But a hybrid, a mountain bike people do it on a mountain bike. You could take a mountain bike and put a little bit less aggressive tire on it, because this is a mix. There's some asphalt, paved roads in here too. So part of the adventure is choosing which bike you're going to take and maybe, more importantly, which tire do I take. That I'm going to be rolling along well on the asphalt surface, but I'm going to be able to roll through some of the adventurous spots and then I can hop off and push it when it all spills.
Jen:Well, and I think your point's a good one that you know you really, as long as it's just not a really skinny tire, you could pretty much do it with any other kind of bike. It's just a question of how long it will take you. It might be a little bit more of a struggle if you're riding a mountain bike with knobbies and all that stuff. But you're going to get there if you're not in a hurry, I mean you don't have to do all 83 miles in one day.
Jen:So now I love the fact that you just made it sound like pulling all this stuff together was just like no big deal, like I did this and then I did that and they did this. I'm like each of the elements of this project would have been somebody's full time job, you know, in some other scenario. So what kept you going? And I understand that you maybe had a little bit of help at the beginning from what Vermont had done. But you know there's a lot to this and you know I love that you're a math person, because I'm a math person too and I love the big paper Like I wanted to see it right in front of me, the whole picture, not just what GPS shows you. But still, you know you didn't necessarily have firsthand experience of all that mileage right when you went into it was that part of it too Like, oh, can I link this together? I need to go out and check it out. Like how much of that happened.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I pretty much knew about all of the different parts and pieces of it, but I went out and redid something like Hogan Road or the rail trails to look at it in a different, with a different eye. Being out there for fun with a group of folks on a, you know, a dirt and pavement ride is one thing, but to put it out there and invite the rest of the world to come use it, I thought, okay, I need to go out there and look at it and then be able to describe it well and warn everybody of what you know like. You're not going to ride a road skinny road tire on this, but it's not a technical mountain bike thing. You're not going to be, you know, carrying your bike up and over hillsides and everything. So I wanted to be able. So, yes, I did go out there and check some of the places out to make sure that everything was in good shape. Of course, I do that after big storms too.
Jen:Yeah, yeah, I would imagine, because you don't know what's going to happen.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Especially these days there's been so many crazy storms lately yeah we lost two big chunks of the presidential rail trail on that December 18th. Oh no way really, but the Bureau of Trails went right in there and within two weeks they fixed it. These were huge washouts.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:The rail corridor was just gone and they went in there and fixed it, because the rail trails are important snowmobile routes, they're important corridors in the whole network. So here they are in December. Their network has now been split by various washouts, and then there was a huge amount of wind. So the trees down. There were 100 trees down in the Pondicherry Wildlife Refuge.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:They required like logging trucks to go in and get. These weren't little trees. All of a sudden they have to patch this all together and luckily for the Crest of Hampshire, the presidential rail trail is an important part of their network and it got fixed. So the snowmobiles can use it and the walkers you know, snowshoe cross country skiers can get out there. And when we do, you know, when springtime and things thaw out and dry out, it will be ready to go for people to start biking.
Jen:I hadn't even thought of that that I did want to ask about, you know, kind of the local interaction, how much municipal engagement you need to get, or because I and I hadn't even thought that it extends to that part where you're going over. You know, not all of it is all of it public land. No right, probably not.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I would say 99% of it. Yeah, yeah, it's either.
Jen:But still, like you're kind of when it's something that isn't required for. You know, commerce necessarily, how much of a hurry are they going to be in to? You know, get that mudslide out of the way or whatever. So I guess you were fortunate that what happened happened in a place that it was vital for them to get back online.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:That's right. The place that, that the only place that isn't a vital place is Hogan Road Because, like I said, if the loggers have a project in there and they need that road, they will fix that road so their trucks can get in, and if the power company needs to get in to deal with the power lines or the DMs from that side, they will make sure. And they recently put in a bridge, that's, you know, you're riding there and it seems like you're in the middle of nowhere and there's a bridge in there that looks like it could hold, you know, highway traffic. Yeah, and it was put in there because the other bridges they put in all washed out. Yes, and they want to have a bridge that's going to stay there and handle the large has anyone?
Jen:been in there since that December storm. I wonder how that's. Yes, that bridge is okay, that river was a hot mess.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:But there's other places that I worry because they're low, and one of the reasons why it's a fun ride is there's one place you're right next to the river, right about at river level, so that river comes up and it probably was under 10 feet of water. Yeah, there is a boat on a trailer that somehow originated somewhere in Gorham that ended up going down the river. People saw it along. I guess snowmobiles went down the river on trailers too.
Jen:There were cars there was like a van and stuff yeah.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And that one of the A boat and A trailer is wrapped around a tree in there. Oh my God, I don't know if it's still there? It's probably still in there.
Jen:It probably is, because it's like, because it's winter, who would have gone in, didn't it Right? Like you really need to tow it out right now. That's crazy. Yeah, that was a nut, well, and a lot of North Road was underwater, I mean, because that's kind of the last bit of it, right, which is a beautiful drive and a beautiful ride, but it was like a sand dune in there when they finally reopened it Right, exactly so you know this adds to the adventure that you know you know, with these storms.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:One day you ride the road and it's fine, and the next day you've got to see in Beth, or they close the road. Yeah, because you can't get through. Yeah, maybe a bike can get through, but a car can't get through.
Jen:Right, right, I would say when we did Hogan Road, you know there was a little bit of we got off a few times and that section where it is really low, even back then it was super rocky and we were riding our mountain bikes and we were still like we're not doing this to our butts right now.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Right, I don't have to get off the bike, walk Exactly, and then it doesn't last for long. Nope, nope. You know we walk 100 yards or something. Maybe you know the worst case scenario and you hop back on. Yeah.
Jen:Yeah, so I still am like just blown over by this. So you created the website that you created, the paper map, you created and, you know, integrated the GPS, you know kind of turn by turn, yeah, so, like you did all this, yes, but I did.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I did have some assistance. Yeah, I had excellent cartography by Larry Garland, who's the cartographer for the AMC.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Oh, okay, I love his maps and I got anybody hiking up here Everybody's probably got his maps on their shelves and he put together that fold out map for me and has updated it for me and I'll you know in the future we need any changes. You know, another year goes by or so I'll probably update it again to try and keep it as good as possible. I happen to like a map that I can fold out and look at and plan my day. Others just prefer to use the ride with GPS on their smartphone or on their GPS unit. Yeah, and what I did? Because what I was trying to do is make it so that nobody has to pay for anything to use this and I've been using grant money to support that, that feeling that that should be done. So with ride with GPS, I have what's called a tourism account, so I pay for that extended ability, that account.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:But anybody who downloads a route from that my website clicking on you know the link from my website they get to use that ride with GPS map with all the spoken cues and all the information. They get it for free as if they were a full fledged, you know, highest category member of ride with GPS. So I feel that way here. I'll send you the map for free. You can use the ride with GPS for free. Go, knock yourself out and have a good time. I don't want to tickle and dime people. People still, they donate, they'll donate, they'll donate. 10 bucks, right, and that covers, you know well, two and a quarter maps.
Jen:You know mailings Well, because that's another skill you had to pick up as grant writing. I mean, had you written a grant?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:before you A few for scientific kind of stuff, okay. But yeah, I've been learning and I have a board of directors, so it's not only me. We're 501c3 nonprofit organizations, so I have a board of directors and they keep quite busy. One of them, rob, helps out these grant writing challenges. Others, trish and Lisa, have worked on sending out these maps, stamping the envelopes and its maps, and stickers and brochures Patches if you need the whole thing.
Jen:Somebody designed the patch. I was like, oh my gosh, yes.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So there's been all of this stuff. It's really it's been fun. I kind of looked at it as well. What would I enjoy? You know, in all the different trips I've done, I tried to put together the things that I found useful. I like the map, I like to know that there's a town coming up and there's ice cream Right, right, right In that town, which again is this whole other thing?
Jen:The fact that you went town by town by town and like either talked to or, you know, somehow vetted. All these places that you're recommending is another whole like lifetime's worth of work.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, I copied another good idea from Quebec and from New York. Quebec has a program called Bienvenue Cycliste, which is Welcome Cyclists, and New York I think it's New York welcomes bicyclists, or something, I can't remember exactly the one right now, but these two places are programs and what they do is they have lists, they have maps, they have icons on the maps. These are the lodgings, these are the places to eat, here are the phone numbers, here's the shuttle services, here's, you know, the hospital, here's the post office, all these different things, and I just found that really useful when you're out there riding.
Jen:But those are put together by like chambers of commerce or tourism boards or whatever, and then you're like undertaking this as like a person, a person who's just fascinated and interested and loves this Well again.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I've got a board now helping me out with this. At the beginning it was me, but after a while I got it. You know, if I'm going to do grant writing and everything, I need to be a certified you know qualified 501c3 organization. And then that requires you know having minutes of meetings and you know meetings a certain number of times a year, filing tax returns and all this stuff. So it required putting together a group of ambitious and knowledgeable people who could take on a task, grab it and go with it.
Jen:Yeah, yeah, so this started getting traction in 2019, right.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, very early, early 2019.
Jen:So, then take me back to kind of what were the first couple of things you did to like market it, once you felt like you had something to talk about, and then tell me what went through your mind in March, through June, say, of 2020, when all hell broke loose and we all were like at home.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Okay, well, the first things I did and I believe this came through from the folks at the Crosser Mount Trail they put me in touch with the it's a National Park Service, rivers and Trails Division and they have grants, and they're not money grants, they're assistance grants.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So they don't give you any money, but they have people who know what they're doing when it comes to trails and you know all of this, and so I applied and I got one and I worked with them. They guided me early on with some ideas and they have some money that they can put in to help you and they decided what probably was good for me to have, because I already had the map. They made a story map and what that is is it sort of follows the whole trail as you look at the map online and it has pictures and it has descriptions and it shows.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:This is the lodging place here and here's the that's smart for somebody to kind of experience it yeah so it provided kind of a bit of a history and of course, this is probably 2019, so things have changed, you know, but that was a really big deal back then and the story maps have, of course, gone much more complicated. But it really and I still have it, I still, you know, link people, link to it, because it does give you a good feeling of what you're going to see along the way the views, you know the rougher parts of the trail, you know the beautiful parts of the trail, all of that. So that helped me. And then I went for another grant to help me with the mapping, cartography, postage.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You know, envelopes, all that to send all this stuff out website. All of this and that came through New Hampshire Charitable, the Tillitson Fund. They saw it as a good idea. Part of that was to establish the North Country Welcomes Bicyclists Program because, again, like I said, I found it useful for me when I was traveling on bike to have that kind of information. And I'm copying it from Quebec. And there began Vinousie Cliste.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:If that icon on the map was there for a BNB, that BNB knew that I could be showing up with my bike, totally covered in mud, freezing cold, and they would still welcome me. They would have a hose, you know, that could clean me and the bike. They have a place where I could store the bike overnight. That was safe, like in their garage or in the barn or in the basement or something you know, not just outside all night. I could fix or clean it or, you know, take care of the flat or whatever. And they had a map. Or they had information where I could find food, where I could find groceries. They have some tools because in a pump, a real pump, we carry all that stuff when we travel on our bikes. We have a little kit, you know, but sometimes you need a big tool.
Jen:So yeah, and it's nice to be able to use, like the real thing, a real pump with a gauge and everything, and not be like yeah, for 20 minutes.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Exactly a little tiny puffet, just time with the pump, which is good. You're out there in the middle of nowhere, you could get home, but this is really it was a luxury. So I started talking to the lodgings along the way that were most likely to be utilized. I started with them and said do you want to be a part of this? The cyclists will be coming through. I can put your name on the website If you are. Here's a pump. If you have one, fine. If you want a pump, here it is. I have a roll-up toolkit and a lot of them wanted that. They didn't have that kind of stuff and then, also as part of this program, I started installing these Darrow fix-it stations.
Jen:Yeah, they have one at either Hub North or at Big Day. Yeah, you see them around in Bethel. I think Inland Woods and Trails is using them too. It's some of their spots.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, there's one at the very end of the cross, new Hampshire, at the Davis Park, and then various lodgings. One of the Israel Work Campground has one In Littleton, the Thayer's Hotel has one there, the Thayer's Inn. There's Scott of Scatter, just one in Woodsville. I tried to put in some of the parking lots that were gonna be the trailhead kind of overnight parking area so you could kind of fix up your bike You've just driven a long way. Now you can kind of make sure the bike's ready to go and I thought that was a fun idea because I'd seen those on the Erie Canal Trail and places. I thought this is great and I got grant money to support this and I got buy-in from communities along the way who were happy to have them in their park or the parking lot and again I tried to have it. They didn't have to pay a cent. So if they were gonna help me to dig the hole and pour the concrete and set up this unit because it's bolted into- the concrete?
Jen:They're not going anywhere?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:yeah, 12 months of the year.
Jen:Well, they have a stand that's integrated into them, don't they? You can hang by it and all the tools are hanging there and then a big pump and all that.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So I'd pay for through this grant money. I would pay for supplies and labor or whatever, although most towns, their Department of Public Works just did it for us, which was really nice. But what I found thinking really at the beginning that it would be for the people traveling through, what I learned was I think the locals use it more. Oh, I bet yeah, Because not everybody has a problem. They're not cheap and not everybody has those kind of specific tools. I mean, probably any tool can fix things on the bike, but there's some that are just made. They fit perfectly. You don't have to go around and look for the right tool. Here it is.
Jen:And there's plenty of people day-using little segments of the trail and they're parking and going to the same spot. So, yeah, it's a good thing. So in two, situations.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:we're installing these units and once the derailleur's sitting on the ground on its side in the box, just ready to come out, and someone came up and asked to use the tools.
Jen:I was gonna say did somebody steal it?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:No, no they asked if they could use it and they used a pump, and that was in Woodsville. And then the same thing in Gorham. Someone came up while this was being installed and I just thought this is great. This is better than I thought, because they're gonna get a lot of use.
Jen:Yeah, talk more about that. This must make you so happy. I mean, we didn't talk about COVID, so I am curious to understand what happened there. But I'm also just like when you're now looking back on it and how it's evolved and how it's taken off, and you've been on TV a bunch of times and people wanna talk to you about it, but I mean, I don't know, how does that make you feel you must be so thrilled.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Oh, it's, it's, keep me going yeah, yeah.
Jen:Did you have any idea when you started this that it would even get to this point? No, yeah, no, it's crazy.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, people really enjoy it, and I'll tie COVID into my comments here. I thought, because it was kinda the beginning of 2020 that really kind of started, you know, I mean the other stuff. We're just getting it going and everything.
Jen:Momentum's building Right. This is gonna be the big year, right.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And then COVID hit. I felt like okay, there you go. Yeah, I want one I was totally wrong. Yeah, Because a lot of people did it. Right Now it's only.
Jen:As soon as you could get outside. I feel like everyone was like flocking to those places, right For exactly that reason to just be away from people, but like also.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Some of the campgrounds still allowed people to camp because you can isolate yourself and then you could camp in the national forest using wild camp, using the national forest camping rules and everything. But you could, and so people came up and they did it and they loved it. Yeah, I've had people from 42 of the 50 states request information amounts and four countries.
Jen:Wow, that's awesome.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:That doesn't surprise me at all, though I feel like and we send out probably 2000 maps every year by email request.
Jen:Wow.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So our shipping and receiving department.
Jen:I was going to say they're very busy. Add that to us they work hard.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:They work hard and probably between 250 and 300 people it's varied over the last couple of years have finished it and contacted me and requested the patch.
Jen:Yeah, why don't? I bet there's a lot more than that too.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, I think some people don't need a patch.
Jen:But I think it's very cool. Who designed the patch?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, I met this person at a bike builders event. He's not a bike builder, but they had other vendors there and he makes patches and stickers. He happens to be a cartoonist and a bike mechanic.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Nice and he designs these and sells them, and they have something to do with bike packing being outdoors. His name is Spencer Hawks and I took his card because I thought the cartoons were great and, being a cyclist, he kind of had that cyclist way of presenting everything. And it was probably a year later that I've contacted him and there's early days of the crossing camp. So I contacted him. I sent him some photos of places that I thought were iconic on the trail, particularly with the Loupin Bloom, like on Valley Road where you look back at the Loupin Fields and then the Presidential Range.
Jen:Yeah, the mountains are right behind you. I mean, even without the Loupin, it's beautiful there.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So I sent him some photos of that and he used his creativity and bingo and there were a couple little edits here and there and what color do you use for the border? And there we go. There was a patch and the sticker.
Jen:That's so cool.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:The logo.
Jen:That is so cool and I've even and I definitely of all the various random people that I follow on different social media there's been quite a few people who've undertaken it and just taken a weekend or whatever. And my friend Trish and I are talking about doing it this year. We're like we've got to eyeball some times of year that makes sense and work it out with the kids and all the other arrangements. But be ready to pop on it. I should look on the site. You must have resources of where we would probably need to rent or pick up some panniers we don't have, like we'll probably camp.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, you'd have to borrow them from a friend I know Like me you could, and they may be available at the bike shops. They may be able to rent them.
Jen:They have some, I know. The last time I was at the there's a consignment shop in Bethel and they had a couple sets and I was so tempted but I'm like, ugh, I don't know. I don't know what I need, yeah.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You have a rack for or the frame bags work pretty well too, and it seems to be popular now too.
Jen:Yeah, or maybe we just pony up and I was thinking we should camp, but I'm like, oh. But then I was also telling my friend Trish, I'm like let's borrow a baby trailer from somebody, we'll just throw all our stuff back there. There you go. I'm like there might be a few places of getting a little dicey with it, but I don't know.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:People have done it. Yeah, there was a couple on a tandem. Oh, wow, and they had a trailer behind and that was for the dog. Yeah, and the dog. It was just a sort of a flat trailer, it wasn't a big bucket kind of thing. Yeah, and the dog on command could jump up on it and ride the trailer, or could just walk. Yeah, walk.
Jen:I could not look at somebody's back for that long. God love whoever was in the backseat. On that. All right, let me see if I covered all my things. This is great. I'm so excited. Yeah, well, you know what I did want to ask you. So, now that you've been doing this for whatever, getting on five years now, do you have any sense, whether from feedback you've gotten, or even if you follow up on some of this to supplement your continued grant writing of the economic impact that it's had along the trail.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I don't have statistics for that, but I've talked to the owners of the cafes and of the kit browns and N's and they say they've seen this increase in the number of cyclists coming through and the cross New Hampshire is one of the reasons. So I feel good about that and I'm not sure exactly how I can get those statistics. But in just getting a statement from the owner that they see it. And for the campgrounds, they've definitely seen it, because the campgrounds were not typically used for bike packers and all of a sudden now there's bike packers and one of the campgrounds actually put in more sites for that can be used At Israel River. Yeah.
Jen:Yeah Well, because it's like a perfect halfway point Perfect yeah. Exactly Because that is. I think that would be probably the way we would try to do it, Because 40 miles is like a lot for both of us. But we could make it happen. I think yeah, Especially if we started thinking about it now.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And one thing that happens every year is it's not like I just made the trail and I just sit back. I know of the problem areas and for me problem area means being on a busy road and there was a section between Littleton and Whitefield that's a busier road and it's not consistent with the spirit of the Cresting Hampshire Adventure Trail. I want to be off-road or back roads, quiet roads. If you're a road rider, it's really no big deal Because it's got a wide shoulder and it's got good visibility and there's good payment. But there's cars there and I don't feel like I want to ride on the road anymore. So I thought, well, let's go this. I'm still going to go for it because there's people working on converting this unused rail line to a rail trail. So as that starts to materialize, every mile of that's gonna be one less mile on the road. Oh nice.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So at that time they were working on the first 2.2 miles and they got that. And then there was kind of a need for the money so that across New Hampshire put in the match funding to help the Bureau of Trails with the next 2.2 miles. Oh wow, and we just finished helping, working in collaborative work together with the Bureau of Trails, to finish this seven mile section. So it's the final 2.6 miles. Oh my gosh.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:They started pulling up some tracks and ties in the fall and will continue in the spring, so it'll be a seven mile piece. That will be it's all on the rail trail instead of on the road. So if anyone who was doing it back in 2019, 2020,- they were on the road, exactly, yeah.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And now people coming up this year are going to have not just 2.2 miles or 4.4 miles, they'll have seven miles, so it'll be really scenic section. There's some really nice railroad bridges and there's some sections right alongside the river and then you're going to have to get on the road and do another five miles, four miles or so into Whitefield and we're working on that too, so that's where I'm spending all my time is that area is still considered active railroad on paper. There's been a train on it in 20 years or more and there's sections that are in such the corridor.
Jen:It couldn't happen anyway, it's not going to happen.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So what we do is we work with the Bureau of Trails and the Department of Transportation, bureau of Rails and Transit to what's called real bank it, and that's what we're in the process of doing and what that means is that they basically kind of give their permission to use their property because they own it. They own that corridor to use it as a recreation transportation alternative corridor and it can be used for snowmobiles In this particular area. It can be used by snowmobiles in the winter and then by non-motorized use in the summertime. Some sections of trail as otherwise like the section Winsville, bath, lisbon as ATVs can be on it.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:But, each section it depends. Yeah, there's stipulations on these various sections, anyway, so.
Jen:Well, you were talking about how it's not a stagnant Like it's done, and I'm moving on. I mean, you're like a full-time community activist and evangelist for this and raising money and matching funds for all of this.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And the rail banking. What that means is that the state can decide at some point that they prefer that it become a railroad again, or a utility corridor or who knows what. And we look 10, 15 years down the line what will be our transportation technology or information technology? Will they need that corridor? So they maintain ownership of it?
Jen:They're giving us the privilege of using their property as a recreation corridor until they decide they wanna do something else with it which is a little bit of a, I would think would be a little bit challenging to wrap your head around, because if you're gonna have to spend money improving it for your particular use, and then you know, yeah, they kinda recapitulate around, but I guess you gotta hope that that doesn't happen Exactly.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And in the meantime we might as well use it, because otherwise right now it's just decaying. Trees are growing up and the snowmobile clubs they are very much part of this project too, because having tracks and ties on the corridor requires two to three times as much snow to safely cover that versus if there was just a hard pack surface and we're having issues with enough snow with these years. So that means now that corridor between Wing Road in Northern Bethlehem and Whitefield, where there's still tracks and ties in that area, they can't use it and it's a big gap in their whole network. So I've partnered very well with these nice collaborations with the snowmobile clubs and the New Hampshire Bureau of Trails, because we, the non-motorized people, we don't pay anything to help support these trails.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Whereas the snowmobiles and the ATVs. They pay registration fees. So what I feel like I'm doing is saying, okay, we're out there all 12 months of the year, we're recreating on those trails and we're kind of the freeloaders, right, we're not paying anything there. So what can I do to help maintain, extend, restore? If there's areas that haven't been worked on for a while, how do you restore it? So now it's more resistant to these weather challenges. So that's where I feel like this the money that I get from donations, the money that I get from grants, is money that goes into maintaining these trails in the name of the non-motorized users. So now we collaborate together. The snowmobile clubs take care of it. They get it all ready for winter, but now we can come in and we can help and keep it clear and in good shape and help fund it. So we're all using this system together and helping to fund, because funding is tough and these storms, it's not $5,000 worth of damage. It's $50,000 worth of damage and it's just gonna keep getting worse.
Jen:But yeah, and that's a great point, because then the more embedded into the fabric of that community you get doing those kinds of usages, so it's much less likely that anyone is gonna be able to get away with kicking you out later on, because it's just in everyone's best interests to continue.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And you had mentioned about community interest and I think these rail trails have this real close relationship to the community. Most railroads went through the town and someone like Wrightville. It's right there, right in the center of town. Two lines cross right there and Littleton goes right alongside the river in Littleton Woodsville. It's right there, so it's close. It's where people live and now they can leave from the house, walk out the door and within a very short distance they could be right there in their own community taking a walk, walking the dog, taking the kiddos out on their little pushbikes or taking. If you're a person who needs some kind of mobility device in the rail trail you've got a really flat surface and hard packed and you can get out there. It's not a steep hiking trail, so it's kind of very. They're very, very good for the community. So I've gotten good support from communities along the way because they see it as something that's an asset.
Jen:Right, I would hope that there wouldn't be a whole lot of nimbyism there, because it would take a lot of bikers to jangle a house the way a railroad car going through 10 feet from your house would be. So I would imagine it's much more lovely than whistles in the night and whatever.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:But there are people who are afraid of it and feel like, oh, there's, all these people are going to be out there now and there's nobody out there now. Well, I think there are people out there. I've certainly been one of them because I'm walking on the tracks and ties doing all these surveys and everything. But snowmobiles have been out there and people are walking. You've got some snow. It's enough to cover a little bit, you can ski on it. So the statistics tend to show that the people who are the most negative about it, they end up changing their mind because they see the advantage and their property value just went up. They used to have a big fence, now they have a door and a gate so that they can access it too, so they can go through. Yeah.
Jen:No, that's awesome. What is your underlying why that keeps the fuel going on this?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I really enjoy the feedback that comes in. People will email me and they'll send me pictures of them in their two seven-year-olds that did the whole thing yeah, that's amazing. Or the 75-year-old who finished walking it before her 75th birthday. She did it in not all in a week. She'd go out in a nice day with friends and do six or seven miles or whatever and then pick up and do another section and the joy and achievement that people have. A group of friends will write in. They send these great photos of them out there pushing their bikes through a public road. There's iconic places where everybody takes a picture Everybody.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, pondicherry, there's like that freaking amazing platform and stuff there's a place where you're riding along in the woods and all of a sudden it opens up on Valley Road. All of a sudden, the looping fields are the open, there's the presidential. It's just a great thing.
Jen:I had that moment today. When you're driving up and all of a sudden you come over without a ride and you see Mount Washington. It's like clear as a bell. I was like, oh, the snow up there. So it is. I can attest to the fact that it's quite a success.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So having those comments come back. Sometimes they get a little card, they send a little thank you note and they tell me about it and I just love it. I love to make people happy and we've got enough things going on in the world right now that are really sad. So if the work I do brings some smile and some joy to a family or to a group of friends or an individual out there for a day or two or three, then I've had my success and I feel good.
Jen:Yeah Well, and I think with the very rapidly evolving e-bike technology, I think that's just gonna expand the accessibility of this type of adventure to all kinds of people and I just think that's amazing, because there's really nothing better than flying along with a wind in your hair and you're outside and maybe you get hit by a bug, but that's fine, you don't even care. Most bugs.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You can bike faster than most bugs. Can't walk faster than most bugs. Most bikes, yeah.
Jen:You don't stop for very long. No, I'm talking about like when you're like, yeah, going at it, and then like something flies in your eye or something Down your throat, yeah, yeah exactly.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, I've talked to people. There's this one guy he's out there with his wife, they're both on e-bikes and he said it's all my fault that he had to spend $1,500 on each of these bikes. It's all my fault that he had to do this. Your fault, yeah, all my fault. And he said he went for his annual checkup and his doctor was amazed because when did you do your blood pressure's down? And he lost 15 pounds, oh wow. And he has a goal of 200 miles a month. Yep, and he gets out there on his e-bike and he might not have gotten out on a bike if it wasn't an e-bike. And you still pedal, you can still get some good exercise. And they're in the pundit cherry section, they're riding the presidential almost every day, and then he's out doing other things too.
Jen:But 200 miles a month, because I mean it's a lot of real trails, but trains went up and down hills too and there's a lot of vertical in this part of the state, so it's not a flat trail by any stretch.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:The section between Gorham and Randolph and to Jefferson. That's like a nine mile climb for the train. So it's not horrible on the bike, but you know it. But when you turn around and you go downhill it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's real treat.
Jen:You still pedal a bit. You still pedal a bit.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You're 14 miles an hour.
Jen:Well, and you suggest, I think right, you normally suggest to go west to east, I do.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I find that the views of the presidential are there. So you're coming through Littleton, you're starting to head toward northern Bethlehem. All of a sudden, as you're riding along, you look up and you start seeing them and as you keep going, you keep getting glimpses of it. If you go the other way, I tell people.
Jen:They sneak up on you, stop and look behind you Exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, that's very true, because we've done that part of it and it is. It's just like you, don't? I mean you could see beautiful things, but it's not at all the same as when you're coming in the other direction. They're just in front of you for a long time Right.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So as you're pedaling along, you kind of look up and it's always there the other way, like I said, you just have to stop. It's not good enough just to have it in your mirror.
Jen:No, no, no. And so what would you say? Is your favorite little spot on the trail? Would it be in there, or do you have another secret spot that you really love?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:That's tough. I'd have to have a favorite spot in every place. Pondicherry is in. The presidential are very special Because you have that feeling of being away from everything. It's the sounds of silence really in there, unless it's windy, which it can be, and the presidential views are gorgeous. You have all those waterways, the beaver ponds, the marshes, the cherry pond. It's this really diverse ecology in there, the variation, the various types of trees in there, the birds. It's got a lot of positive things and it's a great place to take your break, to have, you know you pick up lunch in Whitefield or something, carry it with.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:You go to Pondicherry and sit on the observation duck or on a bench, or if you find a rock somewhere, and it's quite the place. But then there's other places, like going through Bath, through the covered bridge. There Again you're riding along and you come around the corner and there it is and you travel underneath it, which is sort of unusual too, because the covered bridge goes over the trail, goes over the railroad. That's cool. And coming into Littleton too, there's a little suspension bridge there used to get into town. It's just kind of fun, it's different. And then they have the little pedestrian covered bridge too, and the whole town the other side of the river is great and there's the brewery there.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So it's just a great place to go and take some time walk down the street, get some ice cream, get some coffee, get candy at Chutters, stay overnight, whatever brewery, all of that.
Jen:Yeah, absolutely. That's funny that you were talking about Pondicherry. It is a beautiful spot. I had the complete opposite experience the one time I'd been there.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:How hard to read.
Jen:No, no, no it was beautiful out and my husband, I, rode in and we didn't see that many people and so we had been out and about for a while. So this is a TMI story. But I had to pee. So I was like, oh, I'll just go down, I'll shoot down this little trail. Well, first I ran into this field trip group that was all spread out, so every time I would think I was in the clear, another team would come along, then they'd have somebody else, and then just when they and by this time we're getting into dire straits, because I waited a little bit too long, and then it was hilarious Then I'm getting all comfortable, ready to go and then there was like they turned back. They came back the other way, no, but some contraption that was cutting back the trees on either side Like.
Jen:I'm grinding through.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And I'm just like, oh my god. I cannot catch a break.
Jen:Girl just has to pee. Oh, I couldn't pee it is nobody, we hadn't seen anybody in that place for like an hour and then all of a sudden it was like the busiest place on Earth.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:It could have been a birding group. Yes, it was like a whole house. Exactly, they're for a particular kind of bird.
Jen:I shouldn't have even thought about that. Somebody somewhere has your binoculars.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I think I'm in the clear, but maybe I'm not. The camera is everywhere on these days.
Jen:Yeah, that's so funny, all right. Well then, my last question that I like to ask everybody and I don't think I prepped you on this, so take as much time as you like what's your favorite piece of outdoor gear that you have that costs less than $50? Oh, doesn't have to be bike related. It could be most useful, doesn't have to be your favorite, but I could probably list a bunch of different ones.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:What comes to mind. One of them is sunglasses, because I feel that I squint so much with the bright sunshine, even on hazy days. I really like my sunglasses, and then almost protective eyewear too, from dust and bugs and all of that too.
Jen:So that's good. I don't think I've ever said sunglasses that's a good one, because they don't even have to be super fancy, but they got to do the trick. Yeah, that's a good one.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I like that. That's tough because a lot of things cost more, like a bike helmet cost more. That's kind of my point.
Jen:The sports that, and obviously in some cases you can bypass the $50 by going to a consignment store Bike helmet would not be something I would push in on that, wouldn't be one go-hop.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:No safety gear.
Jen:Yeah, right, exactly, but biking is one of those sports that I think people get a little intimidated because there's just so much gear sometimes and you walk into a bike store and if you're a newbie in some places you just treat you like you're.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Because you don't really need bike shorts. Nope, you just have to the first three rides you do. You're going to be a little sore here and there, but after a while you don't really need them. For myself, if I'm riding 40 or more miles a day, I'll probably put them on, or I'm on a bike tour. I just don't want to have an issue day one and have to deal with it the rest of the week. So I might do that, but in general I don't really need them. So I couldn't put that on the list. I was certain having just like a wind jacket, but sometimes those are more than $50. Yeah, so it's hard to.
Jen:Yeah, I think if you can find something that will just break the wind, protect you from that first layer of moisture. Yeah, that you have Light weight If it starts to sprinkle or whatever.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Jacket would be good, because it even protect you against drizzle. Just keep you a little bit warmer in case it starts to rain. It might keep the sun off of you too, oh yeah good call.
Jen:Yeah, you're right, because there are definitely stretches. It's funny because I think people would have a perception of northern New Hampshire being all woods, but there's a lot of open area. Certainly a lot of ponditory is like that, and the presidential rail trail, so that's a good call.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, if you're traveling east-west, you're going to get that warning showing right in your face.
Jen:Right in your face, so you're going to need sunglasses. Yeah, sunglasses are right exactly yeah. It might be frosty, so you might want your jacket, so yeah, I mean bike shoes.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:I don't even use bike shoes to clip in anymore I used to but I like to use sneakers or something that I can walk my bike in or I can walk into a store.
Jen:I can walk into the restaurant Right because there's so many great places to get off your bike and just poke around and look and explore.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, exactly, so just a shorts and a t-shirt and sneakers. You're good and all of that you don't have to spend that much money on. You have to have a more casual thing and have your trusty sunglasses in your lightweight jacket and off you go and off you go.
Jen:Yeah, and money for the ice cream, ice cream, or your Google Pay or whatever it is, yeah, exactly, all right. So it's xnhatorg, correct, right, and everything pretty much is there. You can link to everything from there, right, right, you can donate there, right, you can, you can.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Absolutely, you can ask for the map. You can write. You know the websites on the website is our email address and you can just write to us by email ask for a map. We'll send it to you. It doesn't cost you anything. If you have questions, you can email us. We'll try to answer questions about trail conditions. You may want to have a last minute check on it before you come up. Yeah.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Check it out and I'm willing to do that. I try to keep the website up to date but you know sometimes I might be a day or two late. You can always email me and I'll let you know the latest on it. I try to post. You know, if there's any closures and detours and stuff like that Parking areas when do you park your car If you're going to be going for three days?
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:So I have arrangements with towns Bethel, town of Bethel, town of Woodsville, gorham, littleton where you can put your car. That's going to be OK to leave and won't be considered abandoned, right, right. So that's on the map and it's on the website. And then what about a shuttle? Yeah, if you want to go one way, there are shuttle services. And it's worked out well Because these shuttle services have been typically used for the hikers yeah, for the presidential traverse or AT hikers. So they're used to taking hikers all over the place. Now they're getting bike racks and trailers to be able to take the cyclists too, and they obviously the hikers want to go really early in the morning.
Jen:So yeah, so it works out. And the cyclists are not the three overclock in the morning typically Right, it fits into their schedule pretty well Right, and they're dry and, who knows, they've been in the breeze, so maybe they don't even smell as bad half the time.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:And it helps again to bring a little money into the economy of the North country. Obviously there's the ATVs, and the snowmobiles have been part of the economy up there, but I feel like bringing in these, you know, cycload tourism folks that are going to spend a couple days and tour the area maybe, rather than just ride right through that they will bring, you know, not a huge amount, but every little bit helps. There's something different. It will fill a gap between the snowmobile season and the ATV season. Who uses it?
Jen:Well, the bikers will be out there at that time, right, and those are some of the best times to go really. So that's great, and I will say that in googling to watch some of the videos, because Marion's been on New Hampshire Chronicle and Boston Chronicles so there's lots of great videos out there.
Jen:Yep, windist of the Wild, but there's been other groups that have posted videos about their experience on the crossing New Hampshire Trail so you can really get a good sense of what they did. And it was one. There was two couples, probably a little over than us, but they were talking about the pizza that they got at all the Cameland farms, and so it's funny and I'm like you know what. This is just going to be a fun thing. I'm really looking forward to trying to get this done this summer because I think it'll be fun, or maybe in the fall I think the fall would be great, september, perfect time to be doing it. So awesome, all right, good. Well, thank you very much for your time this has been amazing.
Jen:Thank you for letting me into your lovely home up here. It's so pretty Great. Well, thank you for being interested in this, oh my gosh, I've been interested in it since you first reached out to me. I'm just excited that it's just continued to just blossom, and I'm just so in awe of anyone who takes all this action and just makes things happen like this. This is just such a legacy. It's amazing, so I'm excited.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Well, we're working hard. Like I said, we're trying to. You know we're working. It's the paperwork. It's going to be a little while. We're going to get that rail trail to go into Whitefield and then part of another project, taking that rail trail going north out of Whitefield through Dalton, over the Connecticut River into Vermont and there's a team in Vermont working the other way so that we will connect the Lemoyl Valley rail trail which is Vermont's 93 mile longest rail trail in New England with the Aminoosic rail trail, so it's a 35 mile connection.
Jen:at this point it's going to be called Webb now.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:That would be awesome, and it will create a 150 mile continuous rail trail, which will be, you know, one of those on everybody's list who wants to? Spend their vacation budget traveling on their bike day after day.
Jen:That sounds so great. It'll be a whole tour company's little pop up just to do that.
Marianne Borowski, Cross NH Adventure Trail:Yeah, there is one tour company already that is interested across New Hampshire and they have on their website. If a group of people are interested, they can set a date. And, do you know, pick a date and do a three day tour. Oh nice, it's our only New Hampshire bike tour company, the Great American bike tours.
Jen:All right, I'm going to link those up too, because that's a great way to do something like this. If you're afraid of it. It is just in a supported way, like that's awesome. Look at all your stuff. Move from place to place. Nice, that's cool, that's very cool. All right, awesome, that was so good. Thank you so much.
Jen:Marianne is just the best, and I cannot tell you how excited I am to do my cross New Hampshire through bike this year. And, hey, if anyone out there might be interested in joining me, shoot me an email. Guides gone wild podcast at gmailcom. Who knows, maybe we can do a whole group thing. That would be so fun.
Jen:You can get all the details about the cross New Hampshire adventure trail, including links to the story map, the GPS links, even find out how to get your very own copy of the waterproof paper map. Go totally OG. Over at xnhatorg, marianne and her board of directors have literally thought of everything you would want or need to know about planning a cross New Hampshire adventure trail trip and have curated all of that info in one place for you. It's really next level. So, whether you're planning to through bike or walk the dog for a mile or so, you need to check it out, xnhatorg. I've linked it in the show notes as well to make it super easy for you. And with that let's call this one done until next time and get those maps out and start planning a little bit of wild MUSIC.