Climb for a Cause (and Show Yourself Some Compassion for a Change): Anyssa Lucena

On Guides Gone Wild, we talk to lots of women who do extremely brave things - but I have to say, being vulnerable and open about a life-changing diagnosis and treatment (and the mental *ss-kicking you are still going through as a result), is the bravest kind of bravery in my book.

Anyssa Lucena first graced the Guides Gone Wild airwaves in April 2022, when she was in the early days of building her business, Genuine Climbing, through which she provides guiding, instruction, coaching and community around her passion for rock climbing.

Literally a month after we first spoke, Anyssa’s life and business got turned completely upside down when she found a lump in one of her breasts.

So a few trigger warnings for today: very salty language; cancer; survivor guilt; trauma. If those kinds of things cut a little too close right now, skip this and come back next time.

But whether you’re in for this week’s audio ride or not, please do check out Climb for a Cause, an event that Anyssa is hosting Thursday, October 26, 2023, at the GOAT Climbing Gym in Hackensack, NJ from 7-9pm.

If you’re able to attend in person, you’ll have a fantastic time learning and climbing and learning some more, and will be welcomed with open arms by the amazing community that Anyssa has around her.

If you can’t be there in person, I hope you’ll consider donating to the same causes that Anyssa will be supporting with her proceeds from the event: For the Breast of Us, the first online community dedicated to women of color affected by breast cancer; and The Ellie Fund, which provides essential support services like transportation to appointments, housekeeping, grocery assistance, childcare reimbursement, that kind of thing for breast cancer patients, to ease the stresses of everyday life, so that they can focus on recovery, healing, and spending time with family. 

And a final reminder that early detection can make a HUGE difference - get the mammogram, check yourself out once in a while, and if anything seems to be changing or is concerning you - ANYTHING! - waste no time, make sure to talk to your doctor.

All the links, all together:

• Climb for a Cause (Thursday, October 26th; 7:00-9:00pm)
• GOAT Climbing Gym (Hackensack, NJ)
• For the Breast of Us
• The Ellie Fund
• The Big Cs: Chicks, Climbing and Cancer (FB Group)
• Anyssa’s first episode on Guides Gone Wild (April 2022)

Transcript

Anyssa Lucena: 0:00

I had a lot of cancer places. When you're finished with treatment, like you ring a bell. So I rang the bell. I made a video of me ringing the bell. I'm like I'm done and I kind of thought that like everything would be okay, like it's over. But actually that's where the hard work really began.

Jen: 0:21

Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild. Hiya all, it's Jen back early with a special episode for you On Guides Gone Wild. We talk to lots of women who do extremely brave things, but I have to say, being vulnerable and open about a life changing diagnosis, treatment and the mental ass kicking you are still going through as a result is the bravest kind of bravery.

Jen: 1:07

In my book, anisa Lucena first graced the Guides Gone Wild airwaves back in April 2022, when she was in the early days of building her business genuine climbing, through which she provides guiding, instruction, coaching and community around her passion for rock climbing. Literally a month after we first spoke, anisa's life and business got turned completely upside down when she found a lump in one of her breasts. So let's kick this conversation off with some trigger warnings. You probably already realized that we've marked this one explicit because we aren't missing words. Today we're talking about cancer. Fuck that shit. And we're talking about cancer Survivor guilt trauma. So if that kind of thing cuts a little too close right now, skip this one. Come back next time. Whether you're in for this week's audio ride or not, please do check out my post about Climb for a Cause, an event that Anisa is hosting next Thursday, october 26th, at the Goat Climbing Gym in Hackensack, new Jersey, from 7 to 9 pm. If you're able to attend in person, you'll have a fantastic time learning and climbing and learning some more, and will be welcomed with open arms by the amazing community that Anisa has around her. If you can't be there in person, I hope you'll consider donating to the same causes that Anisa will be supporting with her proceeds from the event For the Breast of Us LLC, which is the first online community dedicated to women of color affected by breast cancer, and the Ellie Fund, which provides essential support services like transportation to appointments, housekeeping, grocery assistance, child care, reimbursement that kind of thing for breast cancer patients to ease the stresses of everyday life so that they can focus on recovery, healing and spending time with their families. I'm dropping the link to Climb for a Cause at the top of the show notes so you can click over and do your thing and, at long last, it's time to let Anisa do the talking. This is raw but so important. Join me in welcoming Anisa Lucena back to the pod.

Jen: 3:15

Anisa Lucena genuine climbing and just, and also a very talented digital artist. I'm going to reshare the graphics that you have put together recently for this event that you're hosting at the end of October, because I was like that is amazing, who's your designer? And you're like, oh, that was me. I'm like get the out, that was crazy. So Anisa and I are chatting again.

Jen: 3:39

We connected back in December to do an update, because I talked to her a couple of years, like a year and a half ago, maybe originally for the podcast. She's based in New York, upstate, right, upstate, you'd call it Kind of yeah, going on the stereo. Total badass climber, super into it, blew up her accounting job, started a business doing gliding, climbing, was doing all this great shit. Covid happened powering through getting back into it doing great stuff and gets diagnosed with breast cancer.

Jen: 4:11

And after we got off the mic in December we had a little side conversation about how you know, I just told her that, given how many people I know that have been diagnosed with cancer or going through cancer treatment lately. It was so awesome to kind of see her being willing to share her voice online and you were like, yeah, you know what, I have different thoughts right now than I had at the beginning and we talked a little bit about kind of how your you know, processing of it and message around it has changed over time and I just thought that was super interesting. But, again, not my story to tell, so I wanted to get you back on to your story, so it's always nice to chat with you.

Jen: 4:54

It's always nice to chat with you and it's kind of cheesy in that October is breast cancer awareness month, but yet I don't know, we don't need it. We never need an excuse to talk about it, because I think it should be talked about all year round, as you do, and you're doing a wicket cool of that at the end of October. That we're going to talk about after. But first I want you to tell us just a little bit about kind of how you came out of the gate when you were diagnosed and kind of how you're feeling today and any place you want to stop that train along the way. No, it's good.

Anyssa Lucena: 5:26

Yes, so basically I was diagnosed last year. I was lying in bed just kind of like randomly scratching myself while I was on my phone, and I felt a lump. Right away I kind of knew in my head that it wasn't right. Not not knowing what like a lump feels like, never did any, like breast self exams, I mean I was doing mammograms because of my age but. But I kind of got the feeling right away and, as timing would have it, I like the next day I went to Red Rock on a climbing trip for two weeks, so I was like climbing and trying not to think about it, but every time I was like bumping up against it. And so as soon as I got home got the test done and, yeah, was was diagnosed. So that was in May of last year and, oddly enough, just like eight months before that, I had a clean mammogram, so it comes up kind of quickly.

Anyssa Lucena: 6:22

So when I found out of, of course, I was like this sucks, but kind of like let's, let's just go at it, let's, let's take care of it, let's get it done, and and I'm just going to do all the things and it's going to be fine. I mean, I never really thought that it was going to be a, you know, life or death situation. I just knew it was going to suck. And you know, my first thought when I got diagnosed was, like well, there goes my climbing season. Of course, you know that was like my main concern. But yeah, I kind of just attacked it as much as I could, which meant for me getting olympic to me, getting surgery and then going through radiation. There was some discussion if I should get chemo or not. I got one opinion that said I should and one opinion that said I shouldn't, and I obviously went with the one I shouldn't. But even even that decision was was, you know, heart wrenching to make. But I finished my radiation, I think around October of last year, and really had this notion of like done, finished, you know, at the, at a lot of cancer places, when you're finished with treatment, like you ring a bell. So I rang the bell. I made a video of me ringing the bell. I'm like, I'm done and I kind of thought that like everything would be okay, like it's over. But actually that's where the hard work really began and a lot of it had to do with the hormone therapy that was involved that I had to take. So you know there's a lot of different types of cancer out there. Everybody has, all you know, their unique experience. So this obviously is just mine.

Anyssa Lucena: 8:12

But my type of cancer is estrogen positive, meaning that it uses, it feeds on estrogen. So part of the hormone therapy is to eliminate the estrogen in your body through different types of medication. So I was 51 at the time, you know I was kind of premenopausal anyway, but I went into menopause chemically immediately. So I went from like hero to zero and then also taking medication to eliminate all the other ways that your body produces estrogen. And yeah, so that kind of wrecked me in a way that I was not expecting. You know, depression I had a lot of, I mean, I only found out later but I developed horrible carpal tunnel where, like I couldn't even hold a pen or make a fist. So, obviously, as a climber, Climbing.

Jen: 9:09

Yeah, that's just what you want to get.

Anyssa Lucena: 9:10

That was, you know, and then just all sorts of stuff, you know crankiness, moodiness, you know yelling at my kids not that interested in sex anymore, which really sucked, because I always really liked that part of my relationship, and just you know, you kind of the only way, the best way that I could explain it, is that I lost a connection with my body, like I didn't know, not only like who I was emotionally, but things that I was used to doing physically I couldn't do anymore, and it wasn't even like, oh, I used to be able to lead this climb and now it's tough. It was just like you don't know how your body works anymore, you don't know what you could count on, you don't know what you could rely on, and so it was kind of like, yeah, it was a bit of a mind fuck to just be like you know what the hell's going on. So I started with one medication and after a month I was just in so much pain from the carpal tunnel I mean, I was, you know, crying every day that I went off of it. Still, to this day I have the carpal tunnel issues now, like every night I wear braces because I lose the sensation in my hands.

Anyssa Lucena: 10:22

But when, you know, kind of went through the holidays just holding my breath and then eventually went on a different type of medication which I'm tolerating a lot more. But yeah, it was a lot harder than I thought. And I think the hard part of that too was, like I thought I think those around me kind of thought it was over as well. Like you had the surgery, did the chemo, like it's done, like you know what's kind of like what's going on now, aren't you? You know people would ask me like is it done? Is it even my kids Like is it over?

Jen: 10:58

And I was like it's never over.

Anyssa Lucena: 11:01

But you know, it's just kind of always there lingering yeah.

Jen: 11:07

Yeah Well, and one of the things that I was expressing appreciation for before we got on the recording was the fact that you know, I think when you're faced with this type of thing in this day and age, the internet and social media can be a really awesome tool and a really awesome way to find community with people that are sharing the circumstance around what you're going through. But they can also be super challenging. If you decide that, you know, if you make the decision to start going down a certain path with the way you're talking about your diagnosis, your approach to your treatment. Again, knowing people in my life personally that have been going through similar battles recently, you know the second you hear something like this. You know your knee jerk reaction these days is to go online and try to like read everything. You can learn everything. You can find everybody. You can, you know, understand that you're not an N of one, even though you might be, and so there's a lot of good that can come from that.

Jen: 12:07

I think sometimes there's a lot of decision making that gets made because you don't find the people that you want to connect with. So you just think to yourself I am going to put my story out there so maybe somebody can find me or maybe I can help somebody down the line. But the challenging part about that that you were presenting to me on in December was the fact that, like crap, I look back at the way I was talking about this six months ago, kind of like when you said it's like I'm here, I'm doing it, it's over, yeah. And now you're like I want to be like shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. You don't know what you're talking about. So, pardon my French, but that seems as though that was what we were talking about, that you wanted to tell yourself no.

Anyssa Lucena: 12:49

Stop. I'm embarrassed at myself for thinking that this was going to be easy. You know there's a lot of things. I mean there are some great groups out there for support and everything. I certainly joined a few Facebook groups.

Anyssa Lucena: 13:03

It is hard to navigate through that because everybody's experience is so unique, like I could take the same medication as somebody else takes and have a totally different effect and other people could love it. So it's hard because it's so different and you never know. It's still like you're going into something, being like how am I going to react? Am I going to feel this way or not? So it can be almost more scary to read all the effects that people are having. The other issue that I had, quite honestly and I'm probably going to start crying is that I felt, because I had a pretty easy surgery, like just a lumptom, just a lumpectomy, and I didn't have chemotherapy, which is like a horrific experience. I almost felt like it wasn't painful enough to deserve attention. It was just chemotherapy and just surgery.

Anyssa Lucena: 14:05

There's so many other women that are struggling with all the ravishing effects of chemotherapy or having major breasts reconstruction or even struggles with not being able to get treatment, like Sloan, where I went for my radiation is like two miles away from my house.

Anyssa Lucena: 14:25

It was like I was lucky enough that I could drive there, get the treatment and then still go up to the cliff and guide for a day and make it happen.

Anyssa Lucena: 14:35

But it was hard for me to, I guess, put myself in with all these other women that were struggling so hard, because I felt like it should have been something or it should be something that I can take on, that I should have been stronger. But I guess the flip side of that is to, first of all, you know, self-compassion is like a constant learning experience, to learn how to do that and remembering that you know, even outside of breast cancer or cancer or anything, you could never really judge your struggle against somebody else's and there's no way to really say you know, my pain is better, worse, stronger, easier than yours and therefore I deserve anything less because of that. So that's something that I still, when I look at the survivor community, I mean it's amazing to see all the strength really that comes from it, from these women that have been you know, been through hell and back and continue to suffer with it. It really is, it really is amazing.

Jen: 15:53

But to that end and thank you for sharing that, your survivor guilt is palpable. Well, I don't know if that's the right term for it, but in those, you know what I mean. Yeah, I do. And that, in those communities, though, that are where people who are surviving it are coming to, you know, I would hope that there is some reassurance that your space should is being held there.

Anyssa Lucena: 16:23

And it's you know, your lived experience is just as legitimate and challenging and awful. It's all in my own head, like, like all of us, when we're struggling with something. It's yeah, it's not. It's not at all because of an experience with somebody else that that invalidated my pain, you know, but it's just.

Jen: 16:42

But it brings up another piece of it is like how much support is there really? You know, like you? It was interesting that you were saying you know everybody in your life is like okay, you're done, now right. I mean, yeah, just thinking about all the challenges around the mental health aspects of it, of like the continuing just it's just like any other traumatic thing, that can crop up in your life like way down the line or, you know, can be something that could take a really long time to work through.

Jen: 17:12

And you know, is that even part of what's offered out of the gate of like, okay, you get a certain amount of, you know, assistance that isn't at all relative to your physical well-being, but it's all about your mental well-being.

Anyssa Lucena: 17:25

Yeah, yeah, I don't know how much, you know I'm sure there there is. I'm, you know, handling it through work with my therapist and, and you know, just reaching out to two other people and kind of you know, putting some other things on hold to focus on myself a little bit more. I mean, it definitely puts your priorities in check, that's, that's for sure, which which you know again, there I do. I do wholeheartedly believe that there is gratitude and grace and something beautiful that comes out of any struggle. I totally believe that Sometimes you just don't see it right away. But, you know, one of the things that came out of this is definitely a shift in my perspective and a little bit more awareness of where I want to spend my attention and how I want to spend it, and kind of not giving myself so freely to a million things or a million people, but really kind of taking the time to know what's what's important to me.

Jen: 18:34

Yeah, yeah, and I mean you were already geared toward making lots and lots of people feel important and doing lots for lots of people. I'm glad to hear that you're dialing that back to even what is giving. Where you're, you can take as much as you give, I hope, yeah. So tell me about, because it's all this is all tied in together. Tell me about Climb For Cause.

Anyssa Lucena: 19:00

So I'm doing an event at a Go Climbing Jam in Hackensack, new Jersey. Actually, the manager there, who's super great, just kind of reached out to me. It's like you want to do something, because of course, I had the idea last year but I was I was too in it to kind of put something together and I was like, yeah, sure, whatever, not really giving it thought, but the more I once I committed to doing it, I kind of kind of dived in and was really excited about it and on a personal level, it's giving me something to direct my attention towards in the meaningful way that I feel good about. I mean, it's kind of like the perfect fit, because climbing and cancer are kind of like the two things that have affected me most in my life, are like the big things. So it's just a fun fundraising event at the gym. Anybody's open. But what I wanted to do specifically was, rather than just having that people come to the gym and climb in, like a portion of the proceeds are donated is I really wanted to make it about education and really kind of teach people, because of course, you know, this wasn't on my radar at all until until I felt alone.

Anyssa Lucena: 20:05

So I have a couple of really fantastic, amazing doctors, one of which is my oncologist, dr Teplinsky. She's also out of Jersey coming and speaking and so they're going to not only give like a group talk about risk and awareness and stuff like that, but they're available for people to kind of speak to privately during the event and then with that it just kind of snowballed. So now we have a nutritionist coming to speak about food and then we have all the good stuff like people coming and giving massages and stretching and all you know, prizes and raffles. And I have to say people have been really fantastic about donating events. I have a lot of people volunteering, which makes me feel really good as well to kind of see that support coming back to me to belay people. So it's a great event for people that have never climbed, just to come and see what it's about in an environment that is all about like feel good and joy and all that kind of stuff.

Jen: 21:03

So I was going to say it should have been like a weekend long thing, not two hours.

Anyssa Lucena: 21:07

I don't think that's going to be. I know already I'm thinking about next year what I'd like to do.

Jen: 21:11

People are going to be there at like 12 30, the gym people are going to be like I need to get out of here.

Anyssa Lucena: 21:16

I know, I know, because you know I put together the schedule event because I'm, you know, I'm trying to obviously like make it accessible to anybody who wants to come. So I'm having like people belay kids. So if you want to come and you can't because you have a kid, you just bring the kid and the kid will be belayed and you could actually have a little fun. And so I had a whole schedule event with yoga and stretches and and a friend reached out. She's like, but when do we climb? And I was like, well, you can climb between all that stuff, yeah. But you know, the climbing community obviously has been very supportive of me. You know, during the whole time it was amazing how many people that I ran to at the cliff and would offer a hug or just kind of check in with me and see how I was doing. So it felt like a really really good fit to kind of invite not only the climbing community but but anybody to come to this event and just, yeah, have fun and see what it's about. And if you know, if, if one person goes home and checks their boobs that night, like it's, it's a win, it really is, because, as we've all heard, but it's it's very true about early, early detection is is the key to everything.

Anyssa Lucena: 22:26

I mean, I realized that it's scary. I have had a few women who have reached out to me saying that they felt something or had some concern, but didn't make the next appointment because they were afraid. Or you know, obviously it's easy to make excuses oh, I can't go. You know, now they want an MRI, I don't have time to do that, or now I have to see another doctor, and I get that it sucks. But you know, my one message that I could give women or anybody obviously breast cancer can affect men as well, but any human is is not to wait and do your best to advocate for your own health, as scary as it is. And if you're scared, you could just message me and I'll I'll talk you through, yes, your phone while you're in the waiting office, you know, but I, you know, I get it, it's, it's it's scary, you know.

Jen: 23:17

Yeah, but you know the alternative could potentially be a lot worse. So, yeah, I think that should be part of the stretching. Everybody should just get right through their top. Yeah, you know, get the motion down.

Anyssa Lucena: 23:30

I used, you know, like it's funny because we're on zoom, I'm like we're both grabbing our boobs but like I used to be a little bit like intimidated about having to do, you know, like you hear, like you should, you should, shouldn't quote, like do self exams, and I never did Because I just felt like, first of all, I don't want to admit that that could be a possibility and I just felt like it was another thing I had to do. It's like having to stretch and meditate and cook healthy foods, like after a while, you know. But you know, it doesn't have to be like a specific thing, just kind of like every once in a while, just give them a rob, give them a squeeze, have your partner do it. It could be a fun activity on a Friday night, who knows, you know, but actually when I did finally feel the lump, you know it was several months before I got it removed with the surgery, but I was basically letting anybody who came in contact with me, if they were interested, to touch it and feel it, so they knew what it was like.

Anyssa Lucena: 24:30

Yeah, because it's just kind of like a P. It was just like a P, you know, it was obvious, but it was, you know, it was. It was strange, so I was. I was kind of allowing people to do that, for for education, you know you're a rockstar, because I mean, because it's true, like I don't know.

Jen: 24:48

You know you exercise, you get old, you have kids like your boot, there's all kinds of stuff. I'm grabbing mine right now. I'm just like there's all kinds of stuff going on in there, like I don't know, you know what's normal, what's not. But I think it's true, like the more you kind of just orient yourself with your body and you'll notice if something is off, and I think that's even better to be like hey, this is kind of what it feels like.

Anyssa Lucena: 25:07

Yeah, I mean you know the. The statistics now are that one in eight women will be diagnosed. I mean that's nothing. So you know, I imagine having this event and looking around the gym and if I just went, like one, two, three, four, eight, one, two, three, four, five, like you know, it's a lot. It's a lot, unfortunately. And I think another kind of preconceived notion is people feel like they're not at risk if they don't have it in their family or don't have any. You know, I did genetic testing. I don't have any. You know markers at all. Obviously, my daughter now will get tested earlier than normal anyway, just because of the history. But you don't need to have anyone in your family at all. You know cancer related or breast cancer related to be at risk. It could be anyone. So just give your, give your boobs a squeeze now and then.

Jen: 26:04

Yeah for sure. So, kind of going back to some of this post, like the, the long tail effects of the treatment and everything else you're going through and feeling like crap and changing it up and trying this and trying that I mean it does sound like perimenopause on complete steroids. Is there anything, any pieces of advice you could give to loved ones, friends, family, anyone trying to support somebody who's going through this? To just like either remind them of questions to ask or things to do or things not to do or things not to say, or just yeah, yeah.

Anyssa Lucena: 26:42

You know it's really hard and during the whole thing I came across you know all sorts of people and sometimes you could see like somebody didn't want to say anything because it's difficult and I get that too. It's like. It's like when, when somebody has a loved one that passes away, you offer your condolences but you kind of don't know what to do or how to help. You know, and so people will be like let me know, let me know how I could help and stuff like that, and and I completely appreciate the feeling and I would do the same thing. But first of all, I personally find it difficult to ask for help. I think a lot of people do when they're struggling again with with anything, to admit it and to ask for it. One advice I would say is for for anybody is just to show up in a little way on your own. And there was a friend of mine he's also a climbing guide that I know from working with him and running into him at the cliff or at the gym and I saw him a bunch of times that I wouldn't have said like we were friends, we didn't like talk during the week or hang out, and one day, like out of the blue. He just showed up at my house with like a dozen courts of homemade chicken soup and he was like, oh, this is what I do for people that I care about, like you know. But he brought me this soup and I was like what? Like it was just so heartfelt and still, like you know, a year later, I'm still obviously crying about the soup.

Anyssa Lucena: 28:10

So the advice I would say for people that are struggling to be supportive is just just show up in a way. So instead of saying like, let me know if there's anything you could do, because more often people aren't going to be like, yeah, come, you know, can you bring me some soup? Just show up and do it. So, do you want to go for a walk next week? Do you want to go catch this new movie? Let me come over and watch your kids for an hour or whatever it is. Don't ask what you could do, just just do something.

Anyssa Lucena: 28:39

And then, if they don't want to think you'd be like, no, I'm fine, but the best way is just to, you know, to show up in some way and just to do it, to make the invitation and again, it doesn't have to be, you know, cancer related, it could just be like hey, it's a great day, do you want to go for a walk? You want to go pick a pumpkin, you know whatever? Yeah, the thing to show up. And then the other thing is is you know, obviously there was a lot of like support in the beginning and then it kind of like weans off because again people think you know you're done or whatever. So every once in a while, like checking in with those people and again showing that support in any way that you want or you know, having a cup of tea or something like that it really doesn't have to be big, but just offering that space for somebody to a mode if they want to, this is really powerful.

Jen: 29:29

Yeah, yeah, and I would, and I think you know, yeah, just in the same way that everyone's cancer journey is completely different, I'm sure everyone's like ability to ask for and or receive help is different, but at the same time, you know, I do think that's completely a great suggestion of just like think about what makes your life annoying and then help this person with it, or offer to help this person in a very direct way, say I want to do this, is that okay? Or you know, I'm going to do this on this day, is that okay? I didn't know. Yeah, I love that.

Anyssa Lucena: 30:01

Yeah, just show up with the littlest thing. Another friend got me a door dash gift certificate, which was great, because at the time I was going through the radiation I was just exhausted like the thought of like trying to feed my kids. I mean it's, it's less than stellar on a really healthy day, even before the cancer is big enough struggle, but just to have that. I remember I was like taking a nap and I woke up and I saw the notification on my phone and I was like yeah, I used it that night. I was like yes, I'm not cooking tonight, like it was just.

Anyssa Lucena: 30:31

It was just the greatest thing you know, like little stuff like that, just and your kids are probably more psyched than if you had cook that night. So oh yeah, yeah, they were safe to.

Jen: 30:41

We don't have to eat whole food. Cook at home.

Anyssa Lucena: 30:43

Yeah, I think we got smash burger or something awful like that, and I even let them get you, like can we get a shake? I'm like sure, man, just get it all world, yeah. But and I guess to try and leave or like end the discussion on a more upbeat note or more, you know, I think gratitude is just the lifesaver for everything. It doesn't matter the struggle if you could wake up and be grateful for like one or two things like you're, you're going to be okay, you're going to be okay. Like it could suck for now, but like you're going to be okay. So I know it's, it's kind of sometimes could be a little, I don't know, like campy, when people are like, oh, gratitude, yeah, you know, but but I, I, you know, that's something that actually makes a difference and then just learning to be self, self compassionate and and trying to let the others around you know as much as you can what you're going through.

Anyssa Lucena: 31:47

There was one time I went to the movies with my kids and I don't even know, honestly, jen, I don't even know what happened, but somewhere between the ticket line and the popcorn line I like totally lost my shit and I was yelling at them and I pulled one of those like I don't want to see this movie anymore, and they were just looking at me like what just happened?

Anyssa Lucena: 32:10

I managed to turn it around to go to the movie, but afterwards I sat them down like okay, like this is what's going on with me. This is why I'm feeling this way, this is why I'm kind of acting irrational and all I could ask is you guys, like you know, try and be patient with me and everything. And so I think that helped a lot, as the thing that I felt with my relationships with the kids is that they they knew that when I was kind of going off the hook, that why and it relieved me a little bit from that like mom guilt, like oh my god, I just yelled at my kids. It could be like, okay, I yelled at my kids and you know, it is still going to be okay. It's still going to be okay. So the biggest things, yeah, gratitude and self compassion.

Jen: 32:50

I think, if you can, if you can hold on to those as much as possible, I think you're going to be okay, yeah, agreed, and I love that add on of like being more bring forthcoming with the people that you rely on and the people that you surround yourself with about what you're going through, because, as much as you might want to try to shield them and think that that's the better way to do it especially kids and your spouse and stuff like they it, I don't know when they don't have a good picture of what's going on, they're going to keep doing things that are already, yeah, rubbing your last wrong nerve because they don't know any better.

Jen: 33:27

Blaming themselves. Yeah, they're not mind readers. Yeah, yeah, agreed. Well, you're just something else. And wait till you see the art. I'm going to post a picture of this.

Anyssa Lucena: 33:39

Oh, yes, the three yeah.

Jen: 33:41

It's like I couldn't get over it. I'm like this is the most clever thing ever when you ever told me it was yours. It was.

Anyssa Lucena: 33:47

I was trying to guess how can I, how can I tie breast cancer climbing? And then I was like, well, there's a rope, I put a rope in there.

Jen: 33:56

And there's just yeah, and the garters and everything else. The whole thing is so freaking clever, I just love it. Wait till you see this thing, she, you have too many towns. It's like I can't.

Anyssa Lucena: 34:05

Oh, you're so sweet, you're so sweet.

Jen: 34:07

And I appreciate your candor and your willingness to continue to be and you know, I think I think it would be super natural to be like that's it, taking down this whole freaking account. I'm not putting this up anymore, I'm not sharing any of this information. It's too hard, it's too raw, I'm too raw, but the fact that you do, I don't know, it's helping so many people and I hope so. You'll see it. I mean, I just think that you're going to get a bunch of people that are going to be finding community through you at this event, just because they are yeah.

Anyssa Lucena: 34:38

And, as a side note too, I did create a Facebook group that's called I forget the name now, but you could. You could find it there. But it's like cancer, chicks and climbing, or chicks, cancer and climbing, something like that. Because, again, when I when I found out, of course you know, yeah, when you get diagnosed with breast cancer, your first concern is how it's going to affect your climbing. But I I was surprised to see that there wasn't. There wasn't a lot of that. There were. There were women who found climbing after cancer as as a means of like therapy and strength and like a new love, but I couldn't find a lot of climbers that were going through it. And I know they're out there because statistically they have to be, but either they're not vocal about it or there's just not a forum for it. So, yeah, so I just kind of created a Facebook group for that, for people to come and chat about that.

Jen: 35:31

Yeah, that's awesome Because I mean, regardless of you know, whether you're getting a lump back to me or you're getting everything redone up there, there's just so much going on and I would think all the movements and everything else like to have other people who are completely in the zone of understanding what you're going through and why you're so fricking pissed off about all of it, and being able to support each other and share tips and stuff. I would think is really, really important. So, yeah, absolutely Love you.

Anyssa Lucena: 35:59

Anisa, thanks, have a great.

Jen: 36:02

I just I'm. I'm glad. You know I'm sad that you're still not feeling like ass, but I'm glad that you're. You're still here, feeling like us.

Anyssa Lucena: 36:11

So there you go.

Jen: 36:12

Thank you, yeah, and I hope that everyone shows up at the goat to do a little climbing and booby talk, yeah, in two, three weeks.

Jen: 36:22

So I love her so much. Make sure to check out Anisa's fabulous Climb for a Cause. It's going to be a kick ass event, in keeping with the totally kick ass artwork she created to promote it. Check it out right this second over at genuine climbingcom slash climb for a cause, or good news. As always, I've hooked you up with the link right there in the show notes so you can just use your finger and scroll down and tap and get with the program already. That's it for today, so you know what time it is time to get acquainted with those boobies of yours, because early detection really can make a huge difference. Be aware, get your mammograms and keep your eyes and, I guess, your hands on those things and let your doctor know right away if anything starts getting a little wild.