Talk to Cool People (Then Say Yes!): Alicia Heyburn Encore (with PackRaft Maine)

I’ve got another special encore for you this week to remind all of us of the absolute power and beauty that can come from making connections, staying curious and just saying YES! (despite your nagging doubts...)

Picture yourself in April 2020, flailing around in and out of lockdown, wondering if the world was legit ending. That’s about the time I decided to use some of MY newly found free time to start reaching out to Maine guides to eventually recommend to visitors of our Lodge property, refusing to believe that we’d never be able to travel again.

And the very very first person to whom I reached out - who eventually took an even bigger leap and agreed to be interviewed by me, for purposes that weren’t even 100% clear to me at the time - was Alicia Heyburn.

Alicia is the Executive Director of Teens to Trails, a registered sea kayak guide, she’s on the boards of Maine Island Trail Association and Maine GearShare, she’s basically the Kevin Bacon of Maine, I think everyone in the state is, at most, two or three connections away from her.

I’ve stopped counting the number of guests I’ve had on Guides Gone Wild that were direct or indirect referrals from Alicia. And guess who reached out a month or so ago to let me know that a space had opened up on a trip she was going on with PackRaft Maine?!?

My kneejerk reaction was "I don’t think so, that sounds kinda hard and complicated, plus it’s a far drive, blah blah blah no blah...."

And then I was like, "Jen, you have spent the last four years talking a big game about getting outside, being a beginner, trying new things with new people, moving into the life you want to live - so shut the **** up, figure it out and make it happen!"

So last weekend I drove 4 ½ hours and shared a tent and two days of end to end outdoor amazingness with someone who was a complete stranger less than five years ago, whom I randomly connected with on LinkedIn.

Alicia is one of a kind, as was this trip: Alejandro Strong, the founder of PackRaft Maine, shepherded our group of complete newbies through the process of packing all our gear and led us as we biked the Penobscot River Trails, into Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument, where we camped at Lunksoos Campground, then paddled the East Branch of the Penobscot back to our starting point on Sunday.

It was a weekend of sparkling water, the darkest skies and epic stargazing, making new friends and trying lots of new things.

And all because I talked to someone cool many moons ago. And said yes.

Enjoy this encore! And come on over to GuidesGoneWild.com to see all the links from Alicia's debut episode!

Transcript

Jen: 0:02

Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild.

Jen: 0:25

Welcome to Guides Gone Wild. This is Jen, and I've got another special encore for you this week that I hope will remind all of us of the absolute power and beauty that can come from making connections, staying curious and just saying yes despite your nagging doubts. Today we're rolling back to the very beginning. Picture yourself it's April 2020. You're flailing around in and out of lockdown and wondering if the world was legit ending. That's when I decided to use some of my free time to start reaching out to main guides to recommend visitors of our lodge property, because I was refusing to believe that we'd never be able to travel again. And the very, very first person I reached out to, who eventually took an even bigger leap and agreed to be interviewed by me for purposes that weren't even 100% clear to me at the time, was Alicia Habern. Alicia is the executive director of Teens to Trails, a registered Sikh Hayat guide. She's on the board of MITA and Maine Gearshare. She's basically the Kevin Bacon of Maine. I think everyone in the state is at most two connections away from her.

Jen: 1:26

I've stopped counting the number of guests I've had on Guides Gone Wild that were director, indirect referrals from Alicia and guests who reached out to me a month or so ago to let me know that a space had opened up on a trip she was going on with Pack Ropt Maine. My knee jerk reaction was I don't think so. That sounds kind of hard and complicated, plus, it's far away. Blah, blah, blah, no, blah, no blah. And then I was like Jen, you have spent the last four years talking a big game about getting outside, being a beginner, trying new things with new people moving into the life you want to live. So shut the f up, figure it out and make it happen.

Jen: 2:04

So last weekend I drove four and a half hours and shared a tent and two days of end-to-end outdoor amazingness with someone who was a complete stranger less than five years ago, who I randomly connected with on LinkedIn. Camtasia is one of a kind, as was this trip. Alejandra Strong, the founder of Pack Ropt Maine, shepherded our group of complete newbies through the process of packing all our gear and led us as we biked the Penobscot River trails into Catahdin Woods and Waters National Monument, where we camped at Lunksus Campground, then paddled the east branch of the Penobscot back to our starting point on Sunday with our bikes strapped to our rafts. Yes, go to Instagram, see the pictures. It was amazing. It was a weekend of sparkling water, the darkest skies, epic stargazing, making new friends and trying lots of new things. And all because I talked to someone cool many moons ago and said yes, spoiler alert, I sound like a deer in a hunter's crosshairs on this one.

Jen: 3:04

I can still remember how completely nervous and intimidated I was to be doing the recording, so cut me a little slack, but Alicia Haber in Story is still one for the ages, filled with all kinds of adventure, inspiration and connection that most of you probably haven't heard yet. So enjoy and do me and yourself a favor. Keep reaching out to those once upon a time connections that share your sense of fun. Connect and keep saying yes, alicia Haber, and welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. It's so awesome that you have agreed to talk to me today a little bit about you and what you do and how you got interested in the outside. Thank you very much for inviting me. Oh, my gosh, my pleasure. So well, let's just dive right in. I would love for you to first give us a little sense of what is it that motivated you to get into this whole outdoor guiding profession and just tell me what your, what your evolution is look like.

Alicia Heyburn: 4:05

Okay, well, I will wind the clock back quite a ways and tell you the impression that I have of my own childhood. You know from the, the opportunity to to look at yourself, maybe from a 30 or even 40 year. Winding the clock back, I felt like I was a child who lived on the sidelines, who, with big, wide eyes and a sense of wonder, would be not even envious but absolutely odd by the things I saw other people doing and, honestly, could never imagine myself in their situation, whether it be like going headlong down a ski slope covered in moguls, when my reality would have been snowplow on the edge out of the way and so thankful that I knew how to like sidestep down the dangerous parts. Or canoeing white water and looking at a river, trying to figure out how they could even read that water and understand how to navigate something that looked roiling and broiling and scary, when I would be very happy, like placidly on calm water. And at some point I just realized that instead of being a bystander, it was time to get in the game, and I think that part of that was just a curiosity about nature.

Alicia Heyburn: 5:37

I figured out that overcoming fear through science was one approach for me I was really interested in marine biology and growing up in mass. But having a family place to come to in Maine was like I just cannot stand on the shore and wonder what happens under that seaweed. I've got to figure it out. And so studying marine science, learning how to scuba dive, just being curious and like mucking around, took away some of the trepidation about getting involved. So let's use curiosity and science as part of my entry. And then in terms of getting more I guess more professional is part of the term that I would use, but that really relates specifically to being a registered main guide and accumulating some of the certifications that I have. I guess it's more just getting the experience that I felt I needed to be more confident in the outdoors. That started about maybe 20 years ago and it was through a series of trial, not even trial and error. I guess the better explanation is baby steps.

Alicia Heyburn: 6:58

I was so curious about bicycle touring. I knew that I wanted that sense of exploration, that sense of travel and that pace that is enabled by putting panniers on your bike and just kind of meandering down roads and across state lines and across country borders on your bicycle and seeing. But how do I do that. So I started by finding somebody who had the skills that I felt that I needed and wanted, invited him along as a partner on an expedition. He knew how to do bike maintenance, he knew basic first aid. Together we could read maps and we went on a trip that lasted a few days, and that few day long trip just led to greater and greater adventures.

Alicia Heyburn: 7:47

The same thing I would say for kayaking that I had access to the shoreline of Maine. That is such an incredible opportunity to just slide a boat in to the water and start exploring. And your exploring doesn't have to be far afield, it can be the nooks and crannies of the Maine coast. But eventually, as you get familiar with what is easily at hand, what is very local, then you want to go farther and farther, and I would be happy to tell you more about that evolution, because sea kayaking has certainly been my entree into guiding.

Jen: 8:25

Yeah, I would love to talk more about both of those things. First off, I want you to share a little bit more about your long distance bike story, because we had a little call last week that you gave me a heads up as to that being your entree into long distance touring. And it's a fun story that has a fun ending, I think, and I wanted to hear a little bit more about that, just from the perspective of somebody who is not super involved in either of those endeavors. To your earlier point, they both seem like they would be super scary to new people, like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be on a bike, I have to bring all my stuff. Where am I going to sleep? What am I going to do? What happens when it rains Like 700 days in a row? Oh my god, oh my god.

Jen: 9:08

You know, even just on the sea kayaking it's one thing to go kayaking in a lake, but the ocean, there's waves, there's stuff down there, it's cold. I'm just like holy cow, how do you give us a? Obviously there's plenty of people that get over those initial hurdles, but as somebody who's kind of like, oh, to try. This is kind of why I want to talk to guides, because I think that's a great way to easier way into it in a very safe and controlled manner. You know, from your standpoint, did you have those same fears? Sounds like maybe you did, and you know. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Alicia Heyburn: 9:43

Okay. So let's start with bicycling, Although there are some fabulous parallels between bicycle touring and kayak touring. And so the cycling, what I mentioned a moment ago about starting with a short trip and going farther and longer and eventually on solo trips. The person that I invited on the first tour that I did is somebody that I had met through work, who are both working at LL Bean. We started developing trust in a report done a one day canoe trip together, a bike trip together, just a day bike trip, a couple of short kayak day trips and I just developed this trust so made the invitation for something more and unbeknownst well, I can't say I was gonna say unbeknownst to me. Of course, there was a little inkling in the back of my mind Like the, not only the, the opportunities for adventure increase, but the opportunities for connection and relationship. So, yes, lo and behold, that adventure partner is my husband and has been for 21 years now and we've done some really great things together. It really feels like like the strength of our relationship. The foundation is based on this trust that we have in each other in these outdoor settings, and so certainly don't want those outdoor adventures to to slow down or to fade because it's just such a great part of our partnership.

Alicia Heyburn: 11:19

So the first trip that we did was by bicycling from our individual homes in Maine down to Portland and directly into the wide open mouth of the ferry that was making daily runs at that point to Nova Scotia. And so a bike tour of me and maybe four or five days right over the fourth of July and brilliant time of summer, and we had like just trials and fabulous wins and these tiny gestures of generosity from people that we met, that felt enormous to us, because when you're on a bike you're a vulnerable individual, not only like fragile in terms of lack of protection no roll bars, no seat belts, any of that sort of thing but you're at the, at the mercy of the winds and the rains. Like your example of what do we do after 700 days of rain? Of course there has never been that much rain but like you find small comforts and you take great comfort in the gestures of others, so one day we had been following this route that seemed to do nothing but climb up a big hill and then drop down the other side, only to climb back up the hill and then back down and up and down, and I was just getting tuckered out and our target was a campground that was going to be up at the top of this ridge that we'd been passing all day.

Alicia Heyburn: 12:47

And we get there and realized that there really weren't any services nearby and we had not planned a meal, and so we needed dinner, and the last thing I wanted to do is to send that blasted hill again to get provisions, to have to climb back up the hill to cook them. And so we went to the manager of this little campground and said you know any suggestions, or do you have a small camp store and you can, like we buy some spaghetti owes? And he reached into his pocket and handed us a set of keys and he's like here's my car, just run down the hill, get yourself to the grocery, buy what you need, come back up. I mean stuff like that has continued to happen on every bike trip I've done since, and it's a wonderful reminder to me of the benefits of trust, the sense of warmth and generosity that don't have to be mad, they don't have to be massive gifts. They can just be small gestures and yet feel like absolutely life saving expressions.

Jen: 13:52

Yeah, that's absolutely that's. That's super cool, and I think that it's something that we forget sometimes, that you know it is, it is okay, this world is not as scary as maybe we all think it is, and that you know there, if you open yourself up to those types of opportunities, a lot of times you're not going to be disappointed. I mean, people are going to really help you out in in times of need. And then the other thing I always like to remind myself, especially when it comes to all those days in a row of being wet, is like bring your frickin credit card, like it's okay to just bail out, especially you know whether it's camping with kids, or you know you're on, you know hike, I mean. Granted, it's a little different when you're very far in the back country. Maybe you don't have that option right away, but it's always okay to turn back and say you know what this was not.

Alicia Heyburn: 14:41

This is not going to be the week to do this, and so I'm just going to go find a motel I love it Absolutely, and I think that that's one aspect that I have figured out for for my own sense of guiding or personal exploration. But, yes, I am so grateful that the back country exists, yet it's not my place. I love that fringe between front country and back country. I love bike touring, I love kayak camping because we can pop back and forth like camp on an island, be totally self, sufficient, feel a million miles away and yet within an hour's paddle I could come into a marina, I can fill up with fresh water, I can buy a lobster roll and then I can pop back out to the wild coast of Maine.

Jen: 15:29

Yeah, that's definitely my. That is my type of trip as well. I've realized that I'm like I just need to embrace it. It's okay. I'm not that much of a badass. I love it.

Alicia Heyburn: 15:41

But? But let's leave the others, the other places, to other people and be just grateful that there's people all over the place having fabulous outdoor experiences Me, my daughter. She's chipping away at the Appalachian Trail. She started at age 15, and now is 18. And, hallelujah, you know, she puts a pack on her back and she feels healthy and free and just like a seed blowing in the wind, like who knows what's going to germinate for some amazing opportunity.

Alicia Heyburn: 16:15

But again, for me, let's stick with the fringe between front country and back country and then see where it goes. So let's talk a bit about evolution. Like we take, we just dip our toe into an experience in a safe and comfortable and accessible feeling way and then go deeper and deeper and deeper. So that first bike tour to Nova Scotia led to a sense of of desire to do more. So when I had an opportunity to have sabbatical from work and we wanted to go and visit my husband's family who lives down south, they're like all right, let's just go there by bike and pack up the panniers.

Alicia Heyburn: 16:55

And that first bigger trip was five weeks long and it didn't. It didn't require like five weeks worth of gear or provisions, right? How fun to know that a weekend long expedition and a five week expedition really requires the same amount of stuff. So after you have happily subsisted with like one pair of shorts, one pair of pants and a couple of tops, after you've realized that really no one needs more than two pairs of underwear because you can rinse it out every day and have it dry and ready, you come back to your, your other life, to your home life, to your base camp and you're just kind of suffocated by the amount of stuff that you have. And let's weed it out. Let's get back down to bear essentials and what we make us feel light and mobile and and comfortable, instead of over one.

Jen: 17:49

So did you figure that out as you went and just started, you know, shedding things like left and right, or had you kind of done enough of these somewhat longer trips ahead of time? Or you know when did you kind of discover that? Was it trial and error? Or did you plug into some sort of expertise externally? That was like no, no, no, take all that stuff out of your back, because I think that's sometimes you know pretty much. I'm still in that phase where every time we go anywhere I feel like okay, well, what if this happens, and what if that happens? And I have been on a longer trip myself with my husband and we did, you know, from the close perspective, realize that you really don't need a whole heck of a lot. But I think sometimes, when you're a newbie starting out a new activity, you know you might kind of let your mind go to all these different scenarios and then you wind up carrying, you know, a pound of essentials and 16 pounds of stuff just in case and like kind of wears that happy medium.

Alicia Heyburn: 18:45

Yeah, let's, let's always start out with that 16 pounds of stuff because it's so gratifying to be able to whittle yourself down along the way, as opposed to starting out in what might feel like with a position of austerity and and lack, like let's just load it on and then you're going to teach yourself pedal by pedal, hill by hill, like, oh man, I packed a dress, like a quick, dry travel dress. Who needs a dress on the bike tour? No, thank you, maybe my skirt will do. I happen to have packed both. I don't need both of those.

Alicia Heyburn: 19:15

And so we started just would like make a pile at night as we're unpacking our gear, like not really don't need that, really don't need that. And then we'd make our way to a post office. And then I loved the little bit of indulgence, like what am I absolutely not going to give up? Because, yeah, it's heavy, yeah it's bulky and yeah, it brings so much pleasure. And for me that was a big bottle of body lotion. It just allowed me to feel like soft and clean and had a nice smell to it. And for my husband it was always like this huge, hard bound book of history that he would read and we'd stop at used bookstores and he'd drop one off and pick up another one nice.

Jen: 19:57

I like that because it's, you know, a bottom line. Most of us are doing these trips because we're trying to have fun and I think it is important to remember that. Okay, so maybe it's not what the choice that everybody would make, given its size or its weight or whatever, but if it's something that's going to make your trip, you know, 10x better just because you're bringing it along, then it's worth your while and you know at the point that it doesn't serve you anymore, you'll understand that and leave it behind, right yeah, and then that's also a good transition from taking personal trips, where you can take the risk of really getting pretty skimpy on what you're packing and guiding other people.

Alicia Heyburn: 20:33

And when you're guiding others, you bring extra. You bring extra layers of warmth, you bring extra food. You make sure that your first aid kit has everything you need plus some, and there's um, there's such a different packing mentality, at least for me. My sense of what might go wrong and how would I bring it right again is much more expanded than when I'm taking myself on on a trip yeah.

Jen: 20:59

So tell me about this a little bit more, about the guiding. So this is, this is a good transition, and I feel bad. We're not talking about Sika. I think we can definitely get back to that too, because I want to. I do want to talk about two different things. One you were talking earlier about how your now husband was kind of that person that kind of eased you into this more independent and longer and bigger and better trips. But I want to make the point that that obviously doesn't always have to be a man, and you're in a great position to talk about other involvements that you have that are women propping up other women in the outdoors. And then the second piece of it is you know to your point, what type of you know, what do you wish that when you're guiding newbies, what do you wish that they would take seriously or what do you wish they would bring? And you know, give me a little more sense of the kinds of things that maybe people always forget or always get too worried about things like that okay.

Alicia Heyburn: 21:49

So the first part is let's talk about the partner, or the inspiration for getting you involved in something that may be tantalizing but totally foreign. And, as I mentioned, my husband was was part of that sense of of invitation into new spaces. But then he took a job at a summer camp that was completely absorbing. It was a residential camp. He was busy 26 hours of the day getting other kids excited about the outdoors, and I found myself in the role of bystander again, just as when I was young, and yet I had. I had much more confidence and much more desire to be a player, not a bystander. So I needed to go out and find new partners for play. It's like my traditional outdoor partner unavailable. Let's let's seek out new ones, and one of the ways that I did that is a tool that I just find so fabulous for this again, sense of trust that we talked about, sense of freedom and opportunity, and that's using meet up and the meet up app and just join meet up groups of like affiliated sports or people that you associate with. So to me that I'm a part of several meet up groups for sea kayaking and then a variety of other kinds of activities like gardening. That's kind of fun for me too. So all of a sudden I had a new community that I could meet of adventure partners because, granted, like some things are fun to do solo, some things are just downright not safe to do solo, and I feel that sea kayaking is part of that, like you mentioned. You know, the waves are there, the cold water is there. I I really advocate that you always have a partner for paddling.

Alicia Heyburn: 23:33

So this was the way I found new partners because, you know, partly as a woman, partly as my age I was in my early to mid 40s.

Alicia Heyburn: 23:42

At the time a lot of my, my peers were like full-time moming it, and they just didn't have the the skills or time to go out and do these kinds of things. And with my position, with my husband at camp, my kids at camp, you know, summers, I actually had it quite a bit of time to go off and learn new skills, adventures. So now I had a new community through the meetup groups and I knew that I needed to up my skills. I didn't want to put anyone else at risk as I was learning, so I started taking some classes in sea kayaking and the more I learned and I I'd hope that other people realize that too. Like totally humbling the more you learn, the more I realized how little I knew I had been running on this sense of like enthusiasm and and curiosity, but also there was a huge dose of just being ignorant and naive and so as I learned more, when you realize, wow, how lucky I've been so far running to the thank goodness I hadn't hurt myself or others.

Alicia Heyburn: 24:52

And so you have to be like walk this fabulous balance between learning without accumulating fear. Learn skills and not fear. Learn where things could go wrong, but how to avoid those situations or how to get through those situations, because I didn't want a back pedal, I didn't want to be like whoa I know that that rip current could really do do some harm to me. It's like I got to figure out how to get through that so that I don't feel constrained in the places that I can go. So that's when I did my guide, my main guide, training to become certified as a main guide and and hopefully, like everybody just has a goal for some level of of training experience certification that they want to achieve because, like you want to run a marathon, you want to bike across the country, whatever it may be, just set yourself a goal because it really is so motivating and the main guide had for a long time seemed like a desirable but again unachievable thing. But chip away at it.

Alicia Heyburn: 26:03

I loved the training experience that I did. I signed on with a kayak guide company in Booth Bay Harbor for a long session of training and prep and testing and then you go and you schedule to take your guides exam, which is a certification offered by the state of Maine, and other states have other types of have certifications, but this trying to think of what an analogy may have been, but definitely the butterflies like you're waiting to be examined literally by people who have a lot of experience and you want to be judged fairly but also like do the best darn job you can, because of course I want to succeed.

Jen: 26:48

And just to give a little bit more insight. So the the main registered guide I mean you're, you're talking both a written exam as well as like a practical skills test is correct.

Alicia Heyburn: 26:59

Well, unfortunately, the way the testing is set up now, you take a written exam and you have an oral exam, and so those two are really great there is currently not a practical component to the to the main guide. Well, the orals probably.

Jen: 27:16

I mean, granted they're not watching your behavior, but that's kind of, I would think, from a nervousness perspective, of standing up there and being presented scenarios that you have to talk through your approach to that would be a little cracking.

Alicia Heyburn: 27:28

Yeah, it was.

Alicia Heyburn: 27:29

But I mean again, it was fabulous because you, like, you have your little nervous start and then you get on a roll and like, I got this, I got this.

Alicia Heyburn: 27:36

The practical component really comes through the guide training, all the experience that you bring prior to feeling ready to even test for the exam, and for you don't have to take a guide training program. To me that was, that was a level of support that I I found invaluable. But but whoever you have have contracted with to help you prepare for the guide exam, you know they they'll give you the nod like if they, if they don't feel that you're ready to test, it doesn't move them at all to encourage you to go and take the exam, because their reputation is is not going to be bolstered by sending unprepared in there. So there's, there's a sort of some informal checks and balances, but the the receipt of, of passing the main guide exam, and then you get handed an official looking piece of paper that you have to sign, um, but a sticker and the main guide sticker. I just remember standing outside the office and taking a selfie like wow, this little vinyl piece of sticky paper means so much to me, like more than my college diploma.

Jen: 28:42

That's awesome yeah, I'm in, so and then. So, like what did you you, you definitely pursue that, you know, from a comfort standpoint? Um, you know, tell me then about the types of ways that you've been, you know, kind of blowing that up a little bit, and where you've been using it, how you leveraged it after that.

Alicia Heyburn: 28:59

Well, it's it. It's both like an invitation to expand your, your, um, your degree of leadership, as well as this huge burden, because I got the sticker, I got the piece of paper and I need to uphold all of the expectations that come with being a licensed guide. So for me that means that I'm playing it really safe. That's just. That's just my personality. I guide only in situations that I personally feel very, very comfortable with. So those are familiar waters. I'm not going to take a group of people to a place I haven't already been and feel really, um, familiar with and weather conditions like. I had a group that I was going to take out just for a day paddle and it was super foggy and it was a place that I knew really well. But with the conditions that we had, I just didn't feel right. You got to trust your gut and it felt better to me to, even though we had like a dozen people at the boat ramp ready to go paddling. Their trust was entirely in me and yet I didn't feel like I trusted myself right then. So it was like, guess what we're gonna? We're gonna call this off until the weather clears, and so you know those are. Those are some decisions that I make as opposed to taking risks um other people who have even more experience. You know they they can make a different decision, but you got to go on what feels right to you, because you have the responsibility of the others.

Alicia Heyburn: 30:24

So I love this sense like, again, combining science and curiosity and exploration of place. That's the way I'm applying my guiding now and I'm mostly in the Brunswick Harpswell area. That's convenient to where I live and it's there's just like this unlimited um length of coastline to explore, with all of our islands and our deep, deep coves and bays. So I have yet to feel like I know every place or get get bored with what I have right here. And and I've seen some changes, like when you keep going to the similar places, you're recognizing evolutions. Not only is that in the rising level of the sea and erosion in places trees tipping off the banks or beaches kind of emerging um, but I also saw a change in the working waterfront. Whereas our beautiful surface would be dotted with these sort of pastel and bright colored lobster buoys, there started to be other things floating on the surface, namely the floating mesh bags for growing oysters, and oyster aquaculture is just having a boom right now in mid-coast mean.

Alicia Heyburn: 31:35

I was so curious about that, so last winter spent the winter taking a course in learning about oyster aquaculture, met some fabulous other people in the course. Most of the other 20 odd participants were trying to learn how to be growers and get into this new section of the marine economy, but my perspective was, as a kayak guide, I want to learn about what I'm seeing on the water so I can share it with the guests that I bring out there. And it's been a wonderful partnership because the oyster growers they, they want to be understood, they want the shoreline owners, they want the recreational boaters they, they want people to know what they're doing and feel supportive of what they're doing. Like, just, let's avoid animosity, let's avoid nimbyism. And so by me leading trips to meet these growers, to hold on to a mesh bag of oysters, to be served a freshly shocked oyster from your kayak, right at water level, at room water temperature, those are fabulous experiences that I have so much fun sharing with people all right.

Jen: 32:44

So that's the type of guide for sure, now I want to do this. So how, so what you know? Who do you work with, or do you have your own um operation that you're leading these tours? Um, how do you pull these together and how do you get the word out and find the people to participate?

Alicia Heyburn: 33:02

A lot of it is volunteerism and that's been a fun part of my guiding. I have done some work with summer camps, I've helped with leadership training for summer programs, but most of the guiding that I do is as a volunteer for exactly this type of situation of helping people understand the natural environment around them. My base belief or maybe it's this absolute hope that I have for humanity is that we have life-changing experiences in the outdoors and that yields an absolute love, respect and care for the environment. So I am happy to volunteer my time having a blast on the water, on bike tours, on hiking trails, bringing people to these places, showing my enthusiasm and curiosity and hoping that it will absolutely be infectious to them. So I lead trips for local land conservation groups and I lead trips for other environmental groups, for there's a working waterfront advocacy group in Harpswell that I've done some work for and I partner with a couple of guide companies that really are set up with equipment and other guiding services so I can expand my capacity and they can rent boats. You don't have to have all your own gear to come on these kinds of trips and that's mostly how I'm doing the work right now. And there's one other aspect that I really appreciate you giving me the chance to talk about, and that is by being a female guide.

Alicia Heyburn: 34:35

I love the chance to guide women, and I have been just totally debunking a myth that I was taught when I did my graduate work in sustainability and that there's a school of thought. Well, there's a new definition nature deficit disorder, right, a designation for those who have grown up without a connection to nature. And so not only is there like an innate, like gap, a longing, a missing piece of their personal evolution and development by not having a connection to the natural world, but there's been some research that said if you don't have a significant experience in nature by age 11, you're just not going to get it. Like your body's going to say like, oh, I had this yearning feeling, it was not satisfied. I'm moving on to something else. I don't buy that for a second.

Jen: 35:35

Well, that's good, I'm glad. Well, and I also even just the whole, like I'm not interested anymore. I'm not going to try that. I'm scared there could be a million different things. But let's talk more about why you don't believe in that.

Alicia Heyburn: 35:47

I don't believe in it, because I have seen evidence to the contrary, and that is through this fabulous, this club. Really, I was going to call it an organization, but it's a club. It's an. Anybody, any woman, can join. So it's not an exclusive club, but you do pay a membership fee and it's called the Ladies Adventure Club and it is just a ton of fun. It's a.

Alicia Heyburn: 36:11

The mission is to create an environment that is supportive and encourages a sense of adventure in the outdoors, and supportive is a key, key word, and the creation of community is another great goal. Like we are never going to say, like the summit of the mountain is what we need to accomplish today, we're going to say the creation of a strong, supportive community is what we're going to accomplish today. And so through this collection there's a couple of hundred members at this point of really curious, brave women. I have seen people 30s, 40s, 50s and older do brand new things, develop a comfort level and appreciation, a love for the outdoors that they have never had in their lives. So, age 11, I'm sorry, I don't believe it. I think that you can have your entree to the great outdoors at any, any age. I love that.

Jen: 37:11

I love it, I love it, I love it and I'm so psyched that you brought that up, because I that was one of the key reasons I wanted to talk to you in the first place, because I think your involvement in that organization is fantastic and is so needed. And as somebody who has has, you know, started their second half century, I am interested in new stuff all the time, probably more so than I was, you know, 20 and 30 years ago and I just feel it's so life affirming and fun and gives you something to look forward to. And I just I'm with you. I don't buy it at all and I think that what you guys do with the club gives everybody an opportunity. You know, when you were talking about joining meetup groups before, that's even too much for some people, like just kind of getting it, getting out there in a potentially mixed scenario and you don't really know who these people are. I mean, what I love about the Ladies' Adventures Club is like, okay, by definition, you're going to be going with other females to places where you know a lot of other people are going to be new too, and there's also going to be people there who know what they're doing, and I just love it to death.

Jen: 38:11

Now, the other thing I want to talk I want you to talk quickly about, before we we sign off, because I want to be conscious of your time is what you're doing now, because I think it plays into this whole thing of your belief that you know what. Okay, fine, there's. There's, you know, nature deficit. Maybe it doesn't turn right off at 11, but I think in in what you're doing in your professional life, you're trying to cover all the bases, front and back end of this, this concern. So tell me a little bit more about, let's tell us a little bit what you're doing now. Awesome.

Alicia Heyburn: 38:42

All right, I'm happy to do that so we could use age 11 as a target. Let's just say that the door to the outdoors will swing open for you at any age. And through this experience with women who are finding this great connection to the outdoors, but mostly the sense of confidence in themselves, this sense of community, not only connecting to other women in the group, but they're finding their connection in the natural world, like the sense of belonging. And this is my place, this is my planet, this is my landscape, they're saying. Like man, I wish I had found this sooner.

Alicia Heyburn: 39:23

So let's not, as a day in our lives to have the chance to find our sense of belonging, our sense of self-confidence through adverse conditions in the outdoors, our sense of resilience Gosh right now, if there is not a better time than now to feel like we are healthy and strong, have a belonging and have a resilience. So my work right now is with a statewide organization called Teens to Trails and our specific demographic is the teenage population and the high school age student, so freshmen through seniors, and finding their connection to the outdoors specifically through this club setting, like we had with the Ladies Adventure Club. So we help schools, community groups, recreation centers, municipal rec departments, ymca's, any kind of group that would serve the teenage population. We help them set up outdoor clubs, or often called outing clubs or adventure clubs.

Alicia Heyburn: 40:27

You can definitely see the theme in my life like outdoor adventure you are one trick pony, one trick pony, but I tell you that pony, there's so many places to do the tricks, right?

Jen: 40:39

Yes, for sure, many different styles of riding.

Alicia Heyburn: 40:42

Yes, yeah, there we go right. We do it on water, we do it on trails, we do it in forests, we do it in fields, we do it on mountains. Let's just do our tricks in the outdoors. So, Teens to Trails like all of the same things that I found with the women are so important in teenagers and that's a time when they're also trying to find themselves right, Like the midlife moment that you referred to for your own life, Jen.

Alicia Heyburn: 41:06

Like we're going through that sense of individuation and self-identification as adolescents too, and the outdoors can really be like a literally grounding element as kids are trying to find theirs in the world. And the lovely thing about an outing club right, Club keyword. It is not a team, you do not try out for this, you just show up, you walk to the advisor's door, you knock on the classroom door, you show up at a meeting and there's this wonderful mix of people in there that it might be the athletes, it might be the kids from choir or band, it might be the theater club, it might just be the kids who haven't fit in yet. They find the sense of in the outdoor and then the outdoor.

Jen: 41:50

I totally love that. I think that is just amazing. You know, as a mother of two, a tween and a teen, you know I just think now, granted, I didn't grow up going outside and being super adventurous because that wasn't what my family did really, but at the same time, you know, I did evolve into somebody who really appreciates and needs some of that time. And you know, I always am concerned that the electronic access is so much more, you know, readily accessible than you know. I mean, back when I was their age, like if you got to play pong at your friend's house for like 10 minutes, your life was just complete and that was really the extent of that. And like four TV channels was really all you had from that basis to kind of pull you out of you know yourself and just plug into something electronic. So you know, there was a little bit of a dearth of that.

Jen: 42:39

Now that's not the case anymore and I am always concerned that like, oh my gosh, where are these opportunities? You know I and I certainly try to light a fire under my kids butts and get them outside on a regular basis, but you know, not all parents have that opportunity, or don't have the equipment or don't have the skills or the knowledge and would be a little intimidated by that. I remember back for several years I hosted a fresh air fun kid from New York City and you know he didn't know how to swim because his mom didn't know how to swim so you couldn't take him anywhere near the water. He was just absolutely, you know, terrified of that. And that, just remembering stuff like that and just kind of having thinking about the fact that you're building these, you know helping schools and these groups, and you know build a nice safe spot for these kids to get together, learn new things, test out new skills, build confidence, you know that's going to really just take them into adulthood and just a completely different mindset and I just think that's fantastic.

Alicia Heyburn: 43:33

Well, thank you, because again in this period of time, like of the adolescence, parents are really important people and yet our kids, our tweens and our teens are saying like I've kind of had enough of you, mom and dad, I want to chill with my peeps, I want to be out there with my peers. And again, that's one of the great benefits of a club that you can be taking these risks and doing this growth work with your peer group and getting a little space from your parents. So there's one aspect to it. The other is, just as you said, like there is an unfortunate amount of parents who don't have the outdoor skills themselves to lead their kids on these trips. That should not be a barrier to the outdoors. So clubs through the school setting are another, another chance to open the door and try some new things.

Jen: 44:28

Yeah, absolutely no. I think that's fantastic. So I think we're we're. If I keep asking you questions, we're going to talk for like 17 more hours because you're so interesting and you're so articulate about all these amazing things that you do and I just love it. But I'm going to ask maybe one or two quickie just off the top of your head, answer the questions, and then I want to have you have an opportunity to let us know how to find you or the different organizations that you're part of. So I guess my first question, and just whatever first comes to your mind what is your favorite piece of gear that you own that cost less than $50?

Alicia Heyburn: 45:03

Oh, the favorite piece comes to mind is one that I just used for the first time yesterday, so I haven't had a lot of field trial testing, but I bought a Lucy light L-U-C-I. And they're those cool like lightweight plastic lamps that you blow up and has a solar panel on the top. And this particular one has a Charging port so I can keep my phone juiced up when I'm camping, particularly island camping nice, that's an awesome idea.

Jen: 45:30

I am. It's funny. I bought one off a Kickstarter similar type thing back during the Syrian refugee crisis. Because of the girls that developed it shouldn't call them girls women in MIT were Donating for everyone that you bought, they donated to or something like that, and I was like, oh, this is cool, and I keep it in the trunk of my car and it I don't even use the charging element to it, but the light thing has come in handy so many times because it's just always charged. You know, if I don't have a flashlight or something to get a change of tie or whatever, I just click it on and there you go and it's just this great thing. So I think that's hysterical, that that's your favorite thing. That's cool. So, and then maybe one last quick question when you are going out on, let's say, a kayak trip, what give me a? What's your go-to? Like snack food, like what do you? How do you feel yourself? What's your grab-and-go?

Alicia Heyburn: 46:17

Okay, so this is another new Evolution in my kit and I was introduced to this brand. Total shout-out to a main company called good to go and they make Dehydrated meals in a bag with a ziplock. I had always rolled my nose up at that, like I'm not a big prepared food person at all I'm. I just like to feel like I'm going from scratch. But this stuff is fabulous and as soon as I had my first meal of it last year, I went out and bought a jet boil, just a simple, simple camping stove.

Alicia Heyburn: 46:51

Camping stoves have been a barrier to me because it just seemed like literally explosive and kind of finicky and took a kind of a, an element of a risk and worry. Yeah, the white, you just push the button in this fabulous Contrasting will boil water for you rapidly. You pour the water into the ziplock pouch of good to go so many flavors that they have and I feel like I'm just feasting and super easy to share because you can get one bag that serves two people. So alright, I'm not has made Spontaneous Overnights like last summer. I was just in this foul mood and my son looked at me as, like mom, you need to go camping and I, just Through the jet boil, a packet grab of good to go in the boat, a sleeping bag and I came back two days later, so happy that sounds for taco, and sometimes you just need hot food like it's.

Jen: 47:48

you know, bars and all that stuff can get you Pretty far, but sometimes hot meal, yeah, no bars Don't get me far at all.

Alicia Heyburn: 47:55

That stuff feels like like a chemical, like brick in my, in my palate. So it would. I have a ziplock of like walnuts and almonds usually in my, my paddling top or my pfd, and then good to go. It's a new, it's a new thing, but I'm just like loading up on supplies and run out the door in a moment snow.

Jen: 48:13

So did you buy those online or do you? Can you get them in like local retailers, or how did you find them and get them?

Alicia Heyburn: 48:21

Combination. Good to go is available in a lot of retailers. Yeah, ems, rei, ll bean, they all have it. There's also a great website that shows the full suite of flavors and I I was first exposed to their product because good to go came and did. They served lunch to 75 teenagers the teens to trails leadership training program that we held last fall. So all the kids and the school leaders got a chance to try it out and then they were really generous with with sharing their product.

Jen: 48:51

That's awesome and even better reason to support them then. So we'll definitely get that link and put it in whatever notes we wind up putting together for this. So so, with that, I want to just I want to thank you, and I think we'll probably have to do a follow-up some time and just do a deep dive, even just on the kayaking, because I want to hear a lot more about that. But I so appreciate your time today. This was so exciting and I loved it. I love talking to you. This is great, I loved it.

Alicia Heyburn: 49:16

Thank you. So let me summarize with four, four bits of con of opportunities for connection on some of the things we talked about. Yes, so on the bicycling side, bicycle travel I highly recommend it. You can go from traveling in to in hotel to hotel or campground to campground. And a great resource is the adventure cycling Association and they're based in Missoula, montana. They have maps that travel crisscross the United States and you can buy a map, set and follow a route and feel really well. So there, excellent to explore with kayaking. There is just this.

Alicia Heyburn: 49:55

I'm on the board of this organization that makes my heart sing and it is the main island trail Association, mighta, mightaorg, and they own not a single acre of land and yet have a virtual water trail of over 220 sites along the coast of Maine and as a member you get a guidebook which to me, is equivalent to the key to the entire coast of Maine. With that guidebook you have access to picnic sites and overnight sites on the mainland and on the, and it's a wonderful resource. So, main island trail Association. And then the final two are the ones that I thank you for the chance to to talking about, and that is the ladies adventure club. Ladies adventure club Maine calm, as well as teens to trails, and that's a non-profit organization. Teens to trails org that is awesome.

Jen: 50:53

Those are all spectacular links and organizations and I'm so glad that you shared those let's have. Anybody wants to reach out to you directly? Would teens to trails be the best place to find you?

Alicia Heyburn: 51:05

That's great Alicia at teens to trails org and I spell that a li.

Jen: 51:11

CIA, fantastic. Well, thank you again for your time today. This has been just great and I hope we get a chance to talk again really soon when we're not all self-isolated. Thanks so much, jen. All right, great.