Spend the Most Time Where the Representation Is: Saige Purser, Diversify Whitewater Community River Float

Last week I mentioned the Diversify Whitewater Community River Float happening up in Veazie, Maine this Saturday, July 8th - and today, we’re hearing more from a true force of nature behind this event, Saige Purser.

Saige is a citizen of the Yakama Nation, a whitewater guide and the Director of Future Generations program for Wabanaki Public Health and Wellness, a community-driven, culturally centered public health and social services agency supporting all Wabanaki communities and people while honoring Wabanaki cultural knowledge, cultivating innovation, and fostering collaboration.

Saige is a tireless advocate for indigenous representation in outdoor spaces - literally tireless, she’s been on the road non-stop for the past two months, which we’re going to talk about today. Her summer itinerary so far sounds exhausting, but so, so amazing!

Saige has landed back in Maine for now, and she’ll be one of the leaders for this weekend’s Diversify Whitewater event - and guess what, it might actually be nice out for a change! So I hope a bunch of you are planning to attend! And it’s not too late to volunteer to help out at the event, link here to sign up.

Quick warning, the audio is a little rough here and there, because Saige was sitting in the middle of a gallery at the Smithsonian when we were recording this - literally! I resurrected it the best I could given my minimum viable editing skills.. don’t worry, you will still come away with plenty to think about and be inspired by.

Follow Saige on Instagram @saigelinsay and prepare to get a face-full!

All the links:
Get more information about the Diversify Whitewater Community River Float here: Bit.ly/DWMaine

Or email acstrong@packraft.me or saige.purser@maine.edu for more information.

Learn more about Diversify Whitewater here: https://diversifywhitewater.org/

• Wabanaki Public Health and Wellness
• Yakama Nation
• What was the ‘Scoop Era’?
• Read a little bit about Saige’s Greenland trip and the upcoming “A Taste of Two Worlds” cookbook development
• National Unity Conference
• Penobscot Nation Youth Council
• The Renwick Gallery of the Smithsonian American Art Museum
• Packraft Maine
• West Forks River Fest
• Read more about Nyle Sockbeson’s AT thru-hike
• What is a flip line?
• Canyonlands Field Institute (Moab, UT)
• Native Teen Guide in Training Program

Transcript

Jen: 0:02

Welcome to the Guides Gone Wild podcast. What is Guides Gone Wild, you ask? This is where you'll fill your ears and minds with the stories of everyday, extraordinary women who will inspire you to take your outdoor adventure game to the next level. Whether you're starting your journey from the couch or the trailhead, this is the place for you. So let's get a little wild.

Jen: 0:24

Welcome to Guides Gone Wild. This is Jen. Today we are taking a little bit deeper dive into an awesome event that's happening this Saturday, july 8. Last week I mentioned the diversify whitewater community River Float happening up in Veasie, Maine, and today we're hearing more from a true force of nature behind this event, Saige Purser.

Jen: 0:44

Saige is the citizen of the Yakama Nation, a whitewater guide and the director of future generations program for Wabanaki Health and Wellness, which is a community-driven, culturally centered public health and social service agency supporting all Wabanaki communities and people while honoring Wabanaki cultural knowledge, cultivating innovation, fostering collaboration. Saige is a tireless advocate for indigenous representation in outdoor spaces Literally tireless. she has been on the road nonstop for the past two months, which we're going to talk about today. Her summer itinerary so far sounds exhausting, but so, so amazing. Saige has landed back in Maine for now and she'll be one of the leaders for this weekend's diversify whitewater event. and guess what? It might actually be nice out for a change. So I hope a bunch of you are planning to attend and it's not too late to volunteer to help out at the event.

Jen: 1:35

The link is in the show notes to sign up. So now that you have the basic deets. let's dive in a bit more with Saige. Quick warning the audio is a little rough here and there because Saige was sitting in the middle of a gallery at the Smithsonian when we were recording this, literally, but I resurrected it the best I could, given my minimum viable editing skills. and don't worry, you will still come away with plenty to think about and be inspired by. With that, let's wild on the water with Saige Purcer of Wabanaki Health and Wellness. All right, well, Saige Purcer, welcome from the road to the guides, come wild podcast today. Thank you, i'm excited to be here.

Jen: 2:21

Yeah, no, i'm excited to talk to you, and the timing couldn't be better because I know that you are part of a really exciting event that is coming up that I talked a little bit about. I think it was this week on Tuesday the diversify whitewater community river float. That's happening July 8th at the VZ salmon club. Unfortunately, i'm not sure I'm going to get this up in time. I want to try to, but if I either way, i think it's a great thing for everybody to keep an eye on, and you're an interesting person to keep an eye on because you never stop, and I think what I would like to do before we talk about the diversify whitewater event that's coming up is.

Jen: 2:58

I would love to have you literally just talk about, like the 9700 places you've been in the past, like three weeks, and what took you to all of those different places, because it just gives us plenty of places to jump off for the rest of our conversation, because you are doing so many cool and interesting things.

Saige Linsay: 3:14

Awesome, okay, yeah. Whereas then these last few weeks, well, i would say, first off, i had the opportunity to go to Greenland through an opportunity to work, and my work is working for Wabanaki Public Health and Wellness. I've been with the organization for around six years now and I'm currently the co-senior director of Wabanaki Public Health. That opportunity arose due to a relationship with USM, so University of Southern Maine, and our work along cultural tourism and expanding people's views and perspectives around how to bring the Indigenous viewpoint perspective into the guiding community, just because it's so underrepresented.

Jen: 4:06

Yeah, absolutely. And I guess we should yeah, i guess we should give a little context. So you work for Wabanaki Public Health, but you are a member of the Yakama Nation, correct? Yes, okay, so are you from the West Coast originally, or tell me, i guess, a little bit on how you even wound up in Maine?

Saige Linsay: 4:25

Yeah, that's actually a story upon itself. I am Yakama, i'm a citizen of the Yakama Nation, and how I got here is interesting. It has a bit of history with that, which I guess I'll provide. In the 60s there was what is called the Scoop Era, where Native children were taken from Native families or from Native families and adopted to non-Native families as a form of assimilation. And my dad was part of that, so he was taken from his mom and adopted to a non-Native family who was in the Navy, and that family was, yeah, they traveled a lot and they ended up in Maine, in Lisbon to be, in fact, and that's where I grew up. So that's how I ended up in.

Jen: 5:18

Maine, yeah, and that does give a really great context to all of the stuff that we're discussing. So this so you were born here, but you obviously are descended from somebody who was put brought here completely against their will. So that's that's we all are. All of us are learning and coming to grips with all of the stuff that's been going on, and I think the outdoors is an interesting is interesting place to talk about. This is anywhere, because there's so many remnants of colonialism and racism that become part of what I think the. You know the cultural discussion is around outdoors and you know conquering peaks and you know trails and and Strava and compete, competition and gatekeeping and all that. So which is probably 17 podcasts all rolled into one. But let's go back to.

Jen: 6:08

Greenland, because I think that that sounded like an amazing trip. Tell me a little bit more about the stuff that you guys got to do while you were there, yeah.

Saige Linsay: 6:18

So Greenland is phenomenal, Like, if anyone gets the opportunity to go there, they're really building their tourism, like capacity, And that's one of the reasons why we're there, Like I said, was to kind of look at that, look at their capacity, do some assessments and talk with their adventure guide school, because they have, like these trade schools And they have people training to be guides within, yeah, within Greenland, which is awesome And it's open to all of people from Greenland.

Saige Linsay: 6:55

And I think for me honestly and this is I'm still processing, of course like it was a lot, We were there for two weeks and it was just incredible. And one thing I'm processing through that is just the active like colonialism that's happening, like actively, like you can see it, Like youth aren't able to speak, like they can speak Greenlandic in school, but when they're talking to their teachers and handing in their work, it needs to be in Danish, Because Greenland is really colonized by Denmark. So that was really interesting for me to witness happening. And we had some tough conversations around when speaking to the guides, And I guess they weren't tough conversations like by any means of us telling them anything, It was just that connection of like, oh, my goodness, like we're sharing the same history in this moment because it's happening now. So that was heavy.

Jen: 7:59

Yeah Well, and I would definitely imagine coming. There's so many places here in the United States where we have groups that are trying to reclaim language before it gets lost, and so to see that actively happening, that had to have been, yeah, super tough. Like, what are you doing? It's still something that people are communicating in, and yet you're being discouraged from using it in every aspect of your life.

Saige Linsay: 8:32

Yeah, so that was a lot.

Jen: 8:35

Yeah, yeah, that is a lot. I, as as with most of most things in the situation I've got, i've got no words, because that's just crazy, wow. And so you were in Greenland And the reason I'd ask that is because I think I read something about another trip, maybe that you I don't know whether you were on the trip when they did like the culinary adventures, and there was something written up in one of the main magazines about that And I'm like that looks super cool. So I wasn't sure if that was part of this trip or not?

Saige Linsay: 9:06

It was Oh, cool, awesome. We're creating a cookbook with USM and then a new school in Greenland, so it's like a book of two worlds, which is really cool, and yeah yeah, that's cool, so let's go, let's go forward.

Jen: 9:27

I guess a little bit because you also said you were in Moab and you said and now you're in DC, so we're all of it. I'm just like I can't even imagine. I can barely, you know, get from two towns over to here on a regular basis, and you've been all over the place. Tell me a little bit about the trip that you're. I think you mentioned it up front, but tell me, tell us a little bit more about the trip that you're on now and what, what kind of the goals are to that, because I think I missed a little bit of it because of our, our audio.

Saige Linsay: 9:58

Oh, yeah, sure. So I'm currently in Washington DC for the Unity conference, and it's a national Unity conference, which is the largest native youth gathering in the nation. There's going to be over 2,500 indigenous youth here. I'm currently sitting at the Museum of American Indian with 18 youth. They're not currently with me right now, they're checking out the Museum, but yeah, it's incredible. This opportunity came through, of course, the Organization of Wabanaki Public Health and Wellness. They raised money for this trip and Tenorskot Nation Youth Council will be honored this year at this year's conference for their award last year as Youth Council of the Year. So a huge opportunity for them to be in DC over this, you know, fourth of July holiday, surrounded by indigenous people It's. I wouldn't have wanted to be in DC otherwise during this time, so I'm incredibly thankful that I'll be surrounded by indigenous people.

Jen: 11:12

Yeah, the timing is a little interesting on that, but I think it's kind of cool to just like try to flip the script a little bit by doing something like that over the fourth. Yeah, that's cool, that's very cool. So, and for these kids is this like the first time they've been down there? And you know, i think I've got to believe that seeing so much art and you know all the different cultures and everything all in the Museum must be really, really cool. If they haven't necessarily been exposed to that before, are they embracing it or are they being like every other teenager that goes to a museum and kind of eye rolling and hopefully internalizing a little bit?

Saige Linsay: 11:55

They're. we're spending the most time here and at the Renwick Gallery, because at the Renwick Gallery they have an exhibit of an indigenous person from the Wabanaki communities, geo. GEO works for Wabanaki Public Health and Wellness. They're master basket maker. They're an incredible artist. So we just left there to come here to this museum And, yeah, we're spending the most time with where the representation is, because I think that is so important for them to see is, you know, pieces of the culture, of the history in a space where others can learn as well. So for a lot of them, this is their their first time to DC and sometimes some of them is their first time flying.

Jen: 12:43

So yeah, very cool, yeah, and I and I, you know, i just think that the being able to kind of I don't know internalize just the, the, the vast knowledge base and heritage base and just like under you know, really get a sense of like how much interesting stuff was going on before those of us who were of the settling races came in and effed everything up for you, for everybody, i think would be, would be cool, because I get overwhelmed in those places of just like, oh my gosh, the variety and all, the, just everything that was happening and that got disrupted. And you know, that's probably just the tip of the iceberg because, as we know, history is written by the conquerors.

Jen: 13:24

But it's a that's.

Jen: 13:26

that's super, that's super cool and a great experience. So I guess this gives us a little bit of a segue to talk about the upcoming event. Let's talk a little bit about that because I know you probably got you're probably pressed for time. I want to hear about your paddling background because I know you're a total badass, because I was watching some of your videos online Like I'm I'm like sweating and getting like hyperventilating and I'm not even the one that's in the water. So I want to hear more about how you got into that. And then let's tell us a little bit about the upcoming first by wet water community float.

Saige Linsay: 13:58

Sure, so I've been a guy, a whitewater rafting guy, for only around like three years, but I've always been interested in whitewater and you know I've gone commercially with companies since I was a kid. And, yeah, actually, wa'vanaki Public Health and Wellness provided me the opportunity to become a guide due to a trip that we took with you on Penobscot youth, in particular on the Penobscot River. And during that trip at one point they just looked at me and they're like, sage, why aren't you a guide? And I had no worries because it was like, yeah, you know, the person that was guiding that day was phenomenal, like it was great. But also they didn't know the history or the place names. They knew, like, the river drives and the logging history, but not, you know, the cultural history that's present on the West Branch of the Penobscot River And that was something that was missing. And they recognized that and kind of called me out on it And I was like, oh, wow, so that next summer that's when I became the guide And I think that's that's my favorite piece of this is just, you know, being inspired by the youth to do that.

Saige Linsay: 15:16

Yeah, this trip coming up or not trip, but the event coming up diversify, white water is an extension of that. It's, you know, recognizing that indigenous people, people of color, people from the LGBTQ plus community, like are underrepresented in these spaces. I love the white water community and I'm not saying that our community isn't great, but we can always make it better, right and providing opportunities for others to engage in this and I think is the point, like we want to create that connection with others and remove barriers, and I think working with Alejandro was huge. I Initially went for a white water or diversify white water grant in the previous year and didn't get it, which I understand why I wanted to do like class five profits and they weren't ready to support that. Yeah, yeah, first, yeah first time out, let's do that.

Saige Linsay: 16:19

Well, my initial scope was to bring together the act, the guides that were already Certified, and create that opportunity for us to connect and engage and to share opportunity, like to share our stories About how we became guides to hopefully then create another event to break down barriers. So that's actually what I did on my own last year. I created some pretty pretty cool white their buffs, so like the neck gators, and they're specifically of the West Brant of the Pinovskot River, and so I sold those and I raised some money and I, yeah, had people come together, some guides come together and and talk about that, and Alejandro had reached out and was like, hey, we should go on a grant together because I think we'll get it. And I was like you're absolutely right, let's collaborate. So I was excited that he reached out and we connect them awesome.

Jen: 17:14

Yeah, and Alejandro, just for anybody who is not familiar with him, is is the Forest behind pack raft main which is doing all kinds of super cool combo bike and rafting trips, kind of up in the Bangor area. right to see up. He's up near Bangor, yes.

Jen: 17:33

Yeah.

Jen: 17:34

Yeah, although he'll go a lot of different places, so He's doing some really cool stuff. So this is you bring, this is this sounds so cool. I mean this. Obviously this event is open to the community, but I love your idea of bringing together the guides as well, and that must have been a really cool Space to be in, is there? do you have it the intention of trying to kind of do something like that again, or is this guy? is this event going to have kind of a little sidebar activity that's similar to that?

Saige Linsay: 18:03

um, I would love to try something like that again with guides. Um, i will say that We did it on. It was rainy, like what if people didn't show up? It was a very small group and more like ally, and I was on the way to show us from our way. Um, so I was thinking they now have a river fest on the kind of back Or in the forts and I'll be present there and I'm hoping it's more connecting there and have more Conversations like that with guides in the kind of back area, in the forks area.

Jen: 18:43

Yeah, absolutely. What did you say that the event was called?

Saige Linsay: 18:46

It's um, I think it's the forks river fest.

Jen: 18:50

Okay, yeah, i didn't catch that. Um, yeah, that that is cool, that it is tough because of the geography, as you said, like you, kind of it's a commitment, pretty much regardless We are. Do you have off and maybe I don't know, maybe you don't, but off the top of your head, like if folks are interested in kind of going up to That area and engaging with Somebody local who will do the types of you know, who has that knowledge of nature And who has that connection to the folks that were there way before we came, is that You know? I do you still do commercial trips or are you mean? It seems like you've got Eighty-seven different things at any given time. I can't imagine like layering on, you know Being a professional whitewater guide and you know sharing history and all that on top of it. But maybe you are doing that. But if you aren't doing that, do you recommend anybody else up there who might be a good match for somebody who wants to come up there, somebody who wants to kind of really do a deep dive?

Saige Linsay: 19:51

um, yeah, so you're correct, i don't do it as much as I'd like to like commercially Trips now, so just for fun. He also works for Wabernike Wellness. We also helped him get trained as a guide and he's Pena Scott. He would be phenomenal. He does some commercial trips and he's currently in Main finishing the The AT, so he should be done, hopefully mid-July, so coming right up and then, i'm sure, back on the river somewhat, although He does work for Wabernike public health and wellness full-time as well.

Jen: 20:36

Yeah, would you repeat his name too? I mean my Mikey.

Saige Linsay: 20:40

McFay. So the first one was Nile sock, beason Yep, and the other person is Mikey McVey mm-hmm. And Mikey is like a wealth of knowledge. He's a grew up in Milan. On kit, he would get you on the river anytime you wanted to get on, so he's a great resource.

Jen: 21:03

All right, awesome, those are good, those are good night I was. I actually did see his some. I've been seeing some of his blog posts. Niles is of his AT trip which, yeah, just the last like two weeks of it raining like literally every single day, i was just like, oh my god, these people are true superheroes who are doing a AT this year.

Saige Linsay: 21:27

Niles, i'm hoping to meet him after this diversify like water event With him for a little bit.

Jen: 21:35

Yeah, i'm sure he's ready for a little fun company. So that's cool, those are good, those are good resources. So, yeah, so I think let's everybody get on the On the play on the program to do the diversify whitewater community river float. It's in VZ main and it's Saturday, july 8th. Because now I'm thinking to myself, i am gonna try to edit this this weekend and I'll bang it up there next week And hopefully people will they're around and have and it's finally sunny outside and they decide they want to rally and do something fun You should have. It looks like an amazing trip, alright. So, sage I, because our audio is not great and I know you have a bunch of teenagers that you have to look after. I would like to ask you the I'm gonna close up with a question I like to ask everybody Favorite piece of gear that you have that costs less than $50.

Saige Linsay: 22:39

Oh, oh that's a great question less than $50. Yeah, oh Josh.

Jen: 22:49

Useful. It doesn't necessarily have to be a favorite, but like just something. Yeah, i'm always trying to come up with like Hey, you know, being an outdoorsy person doesn't mean you have to go, like, break the bank. There's all kinds of things useful things and fun things that you can get that'll cost less than $50. But it is kind of an ambush question that people take a long time to answer sometimes. Features or for.

Saige Linsay: 23:13

Honestly like it seems kind of silly, but carabiners are like my go-to for a lot of things And you know you can find use ones, especially if you're using them for white water. I created a flip line for less than $50 of course. So just some webbing and a carabiner and, Yeah, I would say that's one of the most useful ones.

Jen: 23:39

Yeah, no, that's actually a great, a great great call out, because I'm not sure anybody's ever said that, but it is and you could probably get a get more than a few of them for $50 if you. Yeah that's cool, and you can do a bajillion different things in every kind of outdoor activity, so that was an exceptional call out. Thank you, anything else? what did I miss what? what else should we talk about before I let you go? The?

Saige Linsay: 24:04

only other thing is I didn't get to talk about my trip that I just came back from, and Moab.

Jen: 24:10

Please tell me about that.

Saige Linsay: 24:12

Oh, i was invited To be a guest guideer working with the Canyonlands Field Institute and they have a native team guide and training, so I was requested to be a guest guide out there for that and we had 16 indigenous youth from pretty local communities a lot of today and hopefully And we had six indigenous guides including myself, so it was an all indigenous crew and that was the first time that has happened through the Canyonland Field Institute as well as, i think, just generally in that area, and we spent seven days in and around the San Juan River and it was just, it was phenomenal. He had such a great. Again. I'm still processing this trip because it was just so impactful and I did another podcast specifically about that trip with the radius And, yeah, again, the process is in that.

Jen: 25:16

Yeah.

Jen: 25:18

Did you?

Jen: 25:18

say that you had done an entirely other podcast about that trip.

Saige Linsay: 25:22

Yes, sure, and that's going to come out until later this summer.

Jen: 25:27

All right, that's cool. Yeah, that's very cool. That must have been amazing. So were you doing? was the were all the guides whitewater guides or was it like a combination of just hiking and back country and mountain biking and everything else that you can do in Moab, which is essentially everything in Kenya? wins.

Saige Linsay: 25:45

No, so we did a five day river trip. It was a seven day trip total, but no, we're all whitewater guides And, yeah, we camped out along the San Juan River And it was just epic.

Jen: 26:01

It's such a beautiful area.

Saige Linsay: 26:03

Yeah, and we had high water, so that was fun.

Jen: 26:07

Hopefully that becomes an annual thing and you get to go back every year.

Saige Linsay: 26:11

I was already invited. Oh nice, Really stoked Awesome.

Jen: 26:16

Yeah, that's great. Is the hope that you can keep generating more new guides through the program? like, get their interest peaked, get them kind of in a developmental program and then get a new group every year?

Saige Linsay: 26:29

Yeah, definitely Two of those of the six guides that I said were had gone through the program. Oh, very cool. So, yeah, yeah, but this was the first time that we had enough indigenous guides to be an all indigenous crew.

Jen: 26:46

Oh, that's sweet. It was epic, yeah, oh, my gosh, that's so awesome, that's excellent. You gotta get some stuff. Did I miss that stuff on your Instagram feed? You got to get some more of that goodness up on your pictures.

Saige Linsay: 27:00

Yes, I haven't. It's been a whirlwind. I was only home for two days in between that trip and this trip, so I'm doing my best to keep going.

Jen: 27:10

I suppose that the trip as the chaperone for all the younger not adults yet probably didn't give you a whole lot of time to be scrolling your photo feed and playing around on the internet.

Saige Linsay: 27:26

No, oh man Well.

Jen: 27:28

I super appreciate the fact that you carved out any little bit of time in your trip to talk to me And I'm super excited to hear all about the impact of this community river float And hopefully we're going to be busting out of this smoky, smoggy, rain-filled weather pattern by then And you guys will have the perfect day to get everybody out on the water.

Saige Linsay: 27:51

Yeah, absolutely. I'm looking forward to it And I hope to see a lot of people there.

Jen: 27:58

Yeah, i will have the link in the show notes. I put it up on Tuesday as well, last Tuesday to register because they've got a nice little registration site set up. Or you can email Alejandro at acstrong at packraftme And I think your email might have been on there too. So I will make sure I include all the information so people can get in touch. And either you are absolutely welcome to sign up as a participant, as a volunteer, if you'd like to help out, and I hope everybody gets out and gets on the water. Awesome, thank you so much. Thank you, sage. It was awesome to make your acquaintance And I am looking forward to continuing my vicarious adventuring through you. Awesome. You can meet Sage and Perse this weekend at the Diversify Whitewater Community River Float at VZ Salmon Club in VZ Maine. That's this Saturday, july 8. All BIPOC, queer and allied paddlers and wannabes are encouraged to be part of this free event to encourage and celebrate more diversity on Maine's waterways. For more information or to find out how you can help, you can email sageperse at mainedu or click the event link I've dropped in the show notes, and even after this weekend I hope you'll take this away from my conversation with Sage Hying.

Jen: 29:21

A guide can and should be about a lot more than root finding and keeping you safe. The fullest experiences are going to come from a guide who's steeped in knowledge and traditions of the area that you are interested in exploring. When you're planning your summer outings, i hope you'll take that extra minute to find and support the guides who represent what you wish the outdoors look like. Supporting representation in the outdoors, that means putting your money where your mouth is liking. Sharing, commenting on those creators joining their trips. All of that will hopefully help those guides get more visibility and earn a living doing what they love, so they can, in turn, support and mentor and engage and create a safe space in nature for more people.

Jen: 30:04

And I'm guessing you'll learn a thing or two about your surroundings along the way that you would never have known otherwise. Anyway, in the meantime, you are foolish if you do not start following Sage on Instagram at sagelindsay. That's S-A-I-G-E-L-I-N-S-A-Y. I'm telling you, during this hot spell, i just watch her reels and it cools me right off. So that's it for now. Time to step down off my soapbox, hopefully into a kiddie pool to escape this humidity today, because that's what I'm going to call a little wild.